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Thread: Freedom in decline worldwide: US report

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    Re: Freedom in decline worldwide: US report

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    What's it doing wrong?
    Existing apparently. Seriously, he insists on me providing proof of progress, but considering the last time I did he just insisted it was all lies it is obvious his problem is not really with the government of China. These are the same people who any time China reveals some new technology insist it was ripped off something from Russia or the U.S. and when China wins a gold medal at the Olympics they immediately jump to the conclusion that China must have been cheating. In the U.S. those same people rail about how the Chinese are stealing all our jobs. When said people treat any talk of reform, even actual laws, as being just lies to deceive the West the notion of it being about criticizing the government quickly flies out the window. It is racist fear-mongering plain and simple.
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    Re: Freedom in decline worldwide: US report

    1. China did cheat at the olympics. as i recall, for example, some of their 'athelets' in female gymnastics were too young. that doesn't mean that every gold winner is suspect, it just means that the chinese regime is willing to do things like cheat (or have a different girl sing and lip-sync) in order to gain artificial prestige.

    2. China does rip off technology. in fact, it rips off massive amounts of technology. that new "stealth" fighter? give you a hint; the country that technology was developed in rhymes with "Shamerica"

    3. there is nothing racist whatsoever about criticizing a totalitarian and abusive regime like China's. that is a myth, and one that the CCP deliberately spreads in order to (pathetically) deflect criticism.

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    Re: Freedom in decline worldwide: US report

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    Existing apparently. Seriously, he insists on me providing proof of progress, but considering the last time I did he just insisted it was all lies it is obvious his problem is not really with the government of China. These are the same people who any time China reveals some new technology insist it was ripped off something from Russia or the U.S. and when China wins a gold medal at the Olympics they immediately jump to the conclusion that China must have been cheating. In the U.S. those same people rail about how the Chinese are stealing all our jobs. When said people treat any talk of reform, even actual laws, as being just lies to deceive the West the notion of it being about criticizing the government quickly flies out the window. It is racist fear-mongering plain and simple.
    Are you calling me a racist? Sorry, I have far more experience in this part of the world than you do, son.
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    Re: Freedom in decline worldwide: US report

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    1. China did cheat at the olympics. as i recall, for example, some of their 'athelets' in female gymnastics were too young. that doesn't mean that every gold winner is suspect, it just means that the chinese regime is willing to do things like cheat (or have a different girl sing and lip-sync) in order to gain artificial prestige.

    2. China does rip off technology. in fact, it rips off massive amounts of technology. that new "stealth" fighter? give you a hint; the country that technology was developed in rhymes with "Shamerica"

    3. there is nothing racist whatsoever about criticizing a totalitarian and abusive regime like China's. that is a myth, and one that the CCP deliberately spreads in order to (pathetically) deflect criticism.
    You see, that would make sense if it weren't for the fact nothing can convince you. If I told you about how the principles of stealth are widely known and any group of capable flight engineers could build a stealth fighter based on publicly-available information without the need to steal anything you would probably come up with some excuse for why that isn't the case with China. Just like when I prove the claims about increasing repression false you would inevitably say my information is some sort of lie or show put on by the government.

    Sorry, but when people consistently attack a country in such a manner there is no way I can accept the defense that it is just criticism of the government. You may say it, but I have a feeling when pressured your real feelings will be a hell of a lot less limited.
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    Re: Freedom in decline worldwide: US report

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    You see, that would make sense if it weren't for the fact nothing can convince you. If I told you about how the principles of stealth are widely known and any group of capable flight engineers could build a stealth fighter based on publicly-available information without the need to steal anything you would probably come up with some excuse for why that isn't the case with China. Just like when I prove the claims about increasing repression false you would inevitably say my information is some sort of lie or show put on by the government.

    Sorry, but when people consistently attack a country in such a manner there is no way I can accept the defense that it is just criticism of the government. You may say it, but I have a feeling when pressured your real feelings will be a hell of a lot less limited.
    But it is being reported that it was built with technology that they gleaned from a part of a shot down aircraft from the late 1990s, not from publically available information.

    What people like you don't understand is that when we criticize China, we are talking about the GOVERNMENT not the people or the country as a whole. I LOVE China, its people and its culture, but it's GOVERNMENT stinks...
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    Re: Freedom in decline worldwide: US report

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    But it is being reported that it was built with technology that they gleaned from a part of a shot down aircraft from the late 1990s, not from publically available information.
    It is being reported by Western media citing U.S. military sources. That is hardly surprising. Anyone who is being at least a little honest would have to acknowledge that if this Chinese stealth fighter crashed in territory the U.S. has access to we would have our people scouring the land for any scrap of it we could find. No one would suggest that was all about ripping off Chinese technology.

    Just because some "military source" cited in a newspaper says something does not mean it is true. In fact, you should not rule out that the source is being used to spread disinformation.

    What people like you don't understand is that when we criticize China, we are talking about the GOVERNMENT not the people or the country as a whole. I LOVE China, its people and its culture, but it's GOVERNMENT stinks...
    Funny, because when you say that dishonest apologies are part of Chinese culture and make a number of other comments that clearly only refer to the Chinese people and culture as opposed to its government you make that claim hard to believe. Your constant insistence that any sign of progress is really a lie also causes me to doubt your insistence that this is just about the government.
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    Re: Freedom in decline worldwide: US report

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    It is being reported by Western media citing U.S. military sources. That is hardly surprising. Anyone who is being at least a little honest would have to acknowledge that if this Chinese stealth fighter crashed in territory the U.S. has access to we would have our people scouring the land for any scrap of it we could find. No one would suggest that was all about ripping off Chinese technology.
    I heard on French radio that Serbian sources were also cited, saying that many foreigners (including Asians) came in and acquired parts of the plane. I am not implying that the Chinese did anything illegal, but simply noting what is out there...

    Just because some "military source" cited in a newspaper says something does not mean it is true. In fact, you should not rule out that the source is being used to spread disinformation.
    Didn't way it was true. However, it is from more than a "military source". Serbian sources also were cited on French radio.


    Funny, because when you say that dishonest apologies are part of Chinese culture and make a number of other comments that clearly only refer to the Chinese people and culture as opposed to its government you make that claim hard to believe. Your constant insistence that any sign of progress is really a lie also causes me to doubt your insistence that this is just about the government.
    And if you noted, I also said it of Japanese, Koreans and Taiwanese. Now, while I note that we have serious concerns about Korean honesty and intregity, it is also part of our own culture here in Taiwan. Unlike some people, I can acknowledge some of the less savory parts of our culture without hating the culture. I happen to love Taiwan as it is my home, but I also love the Chinese and Japanese as well...
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    Re: Freedom in decline worldwide: US report

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    What's it doing wrong?
    Well let's see: censoring newspapers, the Great Firewall of China, rounding up political dissidents, oppressing members of the Falun Gong sect and Christians, and having a judicial system where the verdict is usually decided by government officials before the trial even takes place. Things have certainly improved since the days of Mao. Things in China could improve more, but the Party has a history of loosening restrictions only to tighten them again.
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    Re: Freedom in decline worldwide: US report

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    I heard on French radio that Serbian sources were also cited, saying that many foreigners (including Asians) came in and acquired parts of the plane. I am not implying that the Chinese did anything illegal, but simply noting what is out there...
    I would hardly expect them to pass up the opportunity to study any U.S. technology. Know thine enemy.

    Didn't way it was true. However, it is from more than a "military source". Serbian sources also were cited on French radio.
    Except they were not the ones claiming the Chinese fighter was a rip-off were they?
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    Re: Freedom in decline worldwide: US report

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    I would hardly expect them to pass up the opportunity to study any U.S. technology. Know thine enemy.
    And did you see me criticize the Chinese on this point? Once again, showing to the world that I am FAR more objective on China-related matters than you, my Chi-Com apologist friend.

    Except they were not the ones claiming the Chinese fighter was a rip-off were they?
    Except that it seems that some of the technology was, in fact, likely based on some elements of U.S. tech, which is not at all surprising.
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