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Arizona Death Panel Claims Another Victim

Lord Tammerlain said:
Is that what I am doing?

Or perhaps I am pointing out that Death Panels exist prior to Obama care. Something that I know will shock some posters. That the state decided this person was not worthy of having money spent on him, that each person in Arizona felt this person was not worthy spending money on. That rationing of health care exists in socialized healthcare and in private health care. The only difference is who decides what is to be rationed or not
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More accurately the nonsense some are calling death panels. Neither this or what was proposed actually merit being called a death panel. But yes, I suspect there are those who will continue to miss your point.
 
Human resources are a zero sum game. Every dollar spent in one area means it isn't spent somewhere else. Spending millions for low-probability expensive medical treatments might save a few lives, but at the cost of many more from traffic accidents caused by crappy roads that lack funding. However, in this case the cost benefit analysis seems quite reasonable at 14,000 per person(assuming that number is accurate). There is plenty of more wasteful medical spending that should have been cut before this transplant program.
 
I get tired of seeing people at my heart Failure clinic that miss appointments all the time. That miss there meds. That will not adjust tjeir diet. That smoke right in fromt of the hospital.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
*Arizona Death Panel Claims Another Victim* :***** Information Clearing House: ICH
Where was the charity we are told would assist people like this?
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Your own and the websites obvious bias aside...was their some sort of request for said charity? Were people offered notice that the requirement existed? And since YOU care so much, were you were YOU on this? Why didnt you rush in and offer to support the operation? Since...you know...you OBVIOUSLY care so much?
 
Wonder how many people who think that transplants are a right are organ donors? It is not just money, its organ availability. Yes, I know that in one case in Az a organ was available and the person was denied because the State would not pay for it.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Did I say it was?

Notice how I asked where was the charity that conservatives so like to state will take care of the unfortunate, eliminating the need for governmental assistance. Given the conservative nature of Arizona I was suprised that millions of people did not donate to assist this person a fellow american could live.

Overall I am dissappointed at the individuals of Arizona who decided this person should die because they were too cheap to donate a few cents each to allow this person to get a transplant
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How much did you contribute?
 
mike2810 said:
Wonder how many people who think that transplants are a right are organ donors? It is not just money, its organ availability. Yes, I know that in one case in Az a organ was available and the person was denied because the State would not pay for it.
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A right? Who says this? As someone willing to be an organ donor, and someone who thinks transplants are a viable option, exactly who are you talking about?
 
Boo Radley said:
A right? Who says this? As someone willing to be an organ donor, and someone who thinks transplants are a viable option, exactly who are you talking about?
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We have a large disparity of people who are NOT organ donors in our country - which is why so many die before they receive a transplant.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
We have a large disparity of people who are NOT organ donors in our country - which is why so many die before they receive a transplant.
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I doubt anyone who actively sees organ transplantation as a right opposes being a donor. Some do oppose being a donor, but many really don't give it much thought. But those who care about are likely willing to be a donor.
 
Boo Radley said:
I doubt anyone who actively sees organ transplantation as a right opposes being a donor. Some do oppose being a donor, but many really don't give it much thought. But those who care about are likely willing to be a donor.
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If someone doesn't give it any thought - why does it seem impossible that they oppose the overall idea?

At least it means those who are donors take the time to read options on a card.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
If someone doesn't give it any thought - why does it seem impossible that they oppose the overall idea?

At least it means those who are donors take the time to read options on a card.
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We don't know about the majority who don't give it much thought. But the claim that those who think transplantation is a right likely give it thought, and likely support being a donor. What I took acception to was the claim I responded to.
 
Boo Radley said:
We don't know about the majority who don't give it much thought. But the claim that those who think transplantation is a right likely give it thought, and likely support being a donor. What I took acception to was the claim I responded to.
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I'm sure there are some. . . it would be an interesting statistic to really read up on
 
My best friend received a new liver exactly one week ago. The disease he had is called Primary Schlerosing Cholangitis, and it's the disease that killed Walter Payton.

I've personally begun a charity to help him with the costs of his transplant which will run in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.

If he had gotten dropped from the transplant list because of some politician's decision, I'd be more than just pissed.
 
Tucker Case said:
My best friend received a new liver exactly one week ago. The disease he had is called Primary Schlerosing Cholangitis, and it's the disease that killed Walter Payton.

I've personally begun a charity to help him with the costs of his transplant which will run in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.

If he had gotten dropped from the transplant list because of some politician's decision, I'd be more than just pissed.
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If he is dropped from the transplant list it won't be because of a politician - it will be because someone who is responsible for accepting, clearing and dropping people chose to drop him.

I'd focus more on the decision-making process of this individual or group of people before blaming government.

The article in the OP is by far misleading in this sense - it is an emotional plea which ignores the facts and avoid the reality of the situation.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
If he is dropped from the transplant list it won't be because of a politician - it will be because someone who is responsible for accepting, clearing and dropping people chose to drop him.
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Political decisions have ramifications. If a politician makes a decision which leads to someone being dropped from a transplant list, it was the politician who caused that dropping.

I'd focus more on the decision-making process of this individual or group of people before blaming government.
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Where, precisely, did I blame the government for anything in my post?

The article in the OP is by far misleading in this sense - it is an emotional plea which ignores the facts and avoid the reality of the situation.
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Honestly, if someone holds the opinion that transplants "deters more significant advances in the healing and curing side of the medical-end of the whole issue..." they aren't capable of telling others that they are ignoring the facts and avoiding the reality.

Like I said, my best friend was very recently the recipient of a new liver. Part of his process with his disease has been actively participating in a ton of research studies dedicated towards finding a cure for PSC.

His old liver was taken to the Mayo clinic for research purposes. Thankfully, because most people don't think like you do, he was able to donate that liver to research without becoming a corpse in the process.

And his transplant experience hasn't been all hunky dorey. Not even close.

They are dangerous procedures which are only used when no other option is available. In fact, they seek out as many methods of preventing a transplant as possible before someone even gets on the list.

His anti-rejection medicine will cost him (and his insurance company) thousands per month (hence my decision to start a charity in his favor) and make him more prone to getting other illnesses.

The truth is that transplants don't prevent a single scrap of research towards cures and prevention.

There is not a single insurance company out there that wouldn't prefer cures to transplants.

There are no doctors that think that transplants are a suitable alternatives to cures.
 
Well that's the way these discussions go - someone learns that another is anti-transplants for whatever reasons, gets upset and angry, and in the end the anti-transplant individual is trounced on as if they've done something wrong.

Notice how I've stated my views - and I'm not getting all worked up over you guys disagreeing with me? That's because I know that getting upset and bothered by our clashing views isn't going to change anything. After being involved in countless discussions of this nature I've not yet changed my views. . . I stand quite firm in my belief and I guess that just makes people more frustrated.

If you think that trying to harp on emotions when my views aren't emotionally related at all is going to change my long held views you are wasting your breath - or - your fingers.

I oppose transplants - though overall I don't think it's horribly wrong on an ethical level - thus I prefer our government simply not pay for them. There is no substantial argument that affirms that our government SHOULD pay for them. This goes hand in hand wiht my view that the government shouldn't be involved in our healthcare - PERIOD - transplants or otherwise.

If a medication costs too damn much - harp on the pharmaceutical companies and their views towards orphan-medications.
If a procedure is becoming more and more common place yet the cost is climbing higher - harp on the hospital administrate decisions that spike costs. Harp on the medical-supply production companies - harp on legislation that insert more regulation into the medical practices which, also, serve only to raise the cost of said procedures.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Well that's the way these discussions go - someone learns that another is anti-transplants for whatever reasons, gets upset and angry, and in the end the anti-transplant individual is trounced on as if they've done something wrong.
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My statements above were not emotionally based. The issue can be somethign that has emotional meanign for me without my argumetns being based on emotion.

And don't confuse the fact that you are treated like someone who is wrong with being treated liek somene who is doing something wrong.

Teh fact of the matter is that you don't know anything about transplants if you think they have a detrimetnal effect of research into cures and prevention.
 
Meanwhile...back to the OP...

Was this person REALLY killed because ONE PERSON...Jan Brewer...made the decision in and of herself that transplants did not fit in the Arizona budget? And wasnt this thread about charity? SO...Im still wondering...where was the notification that the problem existed, that the individual needed support for an organ transplant? We see it out here farily commonly where individuals hold bake sales, car washes, and place donation jars at shopping and convenience stores to assist families with needed medical procedures. Did that happen in this case? Did the OP know about this before the person died? Did the OP contribute? OR...did the OP just read another snarky article from a biased website and post about a case the OP had no knowledge of or involvement in? Still havent heard the response to THAT question...
 
Boo Radley said:
A right? Who says this? As someone willing to be an organ donor, and someone who thinks transplants are a viable option, exactly who are you talking about?
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I am addressing those that feel AZ should pay for the transplant for people who have no insurance or can't afford it. IMO many people in the US who want govt financed transplants are not donners themselves.
 
IMO Arizona will not be the last State to cut/reduce health care assistance. AZ is facing a 1.4 billion dollar shortfall for fiscal 2010 and an estimated 3.2Billion for 2011 if more cuts are not done. Bottom line is programs will be reduced/eliminated to balance the budget. There just is not enough money to go around. Some will not recieve the funds for their care.
 
mike2810 said:
IMO Arizona will not be the last State to cut/reduce health care assistance. AZ is facing a 1.4 billion dollar shortfall for fiscal 2010 and an estimated 3.2Billion for 2011 if more cuts are not done. Bottom line is programs will be reduced/eliminated to balance the budget. There just is not enough money to go around. Some will not recieve the funds for their care.
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Or maybe raise a tax? One never knows when they might find themselves and or a loved in a major medical situation.
 
VanceMack said:
Meanwhile...back to the OP...

Was this person REALLY killed because ONE PERSON...Jan Brewer...made the decision in and of herself that transplants did not fit in the Arizona budget? And wasnt this thread about charity? SO...Im still wondering...where was the notification that the problem existed, that the individual needed support for an organ transplant? We see it out here farily commonly where individuals hold bake sales, car washes, and place donation jars at shopping and convenience stores to assist families with needed medical procedures. Did that happen in this case? Did the OP know about this before the person died? Did the OP contribute? OR...did the OP just read another snarky article from a biased website and post about a case the OP had no knowledge of or involvement in? Still havent heard the response to THAT question...
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Actually the tread is more about so called death panels.

The sort that we are told will come from Obama care. The US already has "death panels" either decided by the insurance company, medicare/medicaid, a person own lack of financial resources to pay for health care requirements.

I have known that Arizona was cutting its funding assistance for Organ transplants for a few weeks, and it was reported that some of the 99 people on the funding list will most likely die because funding was not going to be avaliable for the transplants.
 
ricksfolly said:
I don't know what the guide lines are, you don't know them either, so let's not preempt it into a political gotcha until we learn more about it.

ricksfolly
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The person was as I understand things removed from the transplant waiting list because the funding to perform the operation was not their. It would not make sense to have the person on the list send the organ to the hospital where the patient is, only not have the surgery performed due to lack of funds wasting the organ in the process
 
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