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Thread: Arizona Death Panel Claims Another Victim

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    Re: Arizona Death Panel Claims Another Victim

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    If someone doesn't give it any thought - why does it seem impossible that they oppose the overall idea?

    At least it means those who are donors take the time to read options on a card.
    We don't know about the majority who don't give it much thought. But the claim that those who think transplantation is a right likely give it thought, and likely support being a donor. What I took acception to was the claim I responded to.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Arizona Death Panel Claims Another Victim

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    We don't know about the majority who don't give it much thought. But the claim that those who think transplantation is a right likely give it thought, and likely support being a donor. What I took acception to was the claim I responded to.
    I'm sure there are some. . . it would be an interesting statistic to really read up on
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    Re: Arizona Death Panel Claims Another Victim

    My best friend received a new liver exactly one week ago. The disease he had is called Primary Schlerosing Cholangitis, and it's the disease that killed Walter Payton.

    I've personally begun a charity to help him with the costs of his transplant which will run in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.

    If he had gotten dropped from the transplant list because of some politician's decision, I'd be more than just pissed.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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    Re: Arizona Death Panel Claims Another Victim

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    My best friend received a new liver exactly one week ago. The disease he had is called Primary Schlerosing Cholangitis, and it's the disease that killed Walter Payton.

    I've personally begun a charity to help him with the costs of his transplant which will run in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.

    If he had gotten dropped from the transplant list because of some politician's decision, I'd be more than just pissed.
    If he is dropped from the transplant list it won't be because of a politician - it will be because someone who is responsible for accepting, clearing and dropping people chose to drop him.

    I'd focus more on the decision-making process of this individual or group of people before blaming government.

    The article in the OP is by far misleading in this sense - it is an emotional plea which ignores the facts and avoid the reality of the situation.
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    Re: Arizona Death Panel Claims Another Victim

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    I'm sure there are some. . . it would be an interesting statistic to really read up on
    I would be surprised if there were any to read. Might be worth a look though.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Arizona Death Panel Claims Another Victim

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    If he is dropped from the transplant list it won't be because of a politician - it will be because someone who is responsible for accepting, clearing and dropping people chose to drop him.
    Political decisions have ramifications. If a politician makes a decision which leads to someone being dropped from a transplant list, it was the politician who caused that dropping.

    I'd focus more on the decision-making process of this individual or group of people before blaming government.
    Where, precisely, did I blame the government for anything in my post?

    The article in the OP is by far misleading in this sense - it is an emotional plea which ignores the facts and avoid the reality of the situation.
    Honestly, if someone holds the opinion that transplants "deters more significant advances in the healing and curing side of the medical-end of the whole issue..." they aren't capable of telling others that they are ignoring the facts and avoiding the reality.

    Like I said, my best friend was very recently the recipient of a new liver. Part of his process with his disease has been actively participating in a ton of research studies dedicated towards finding a cure for PSC.

    His old liver was taken to the Mayo clinic for research purposes. Thankfully, because most people don't think like you do, he was able to donate that liver to research without becoming a corpse in the process.

    And his transplant experience hasn't been all hunky dorey. Not even close.

    They are dangerous procedures which are only used when no other option is available. In fact, they seek out as many methods of preventing a transplant as possible before someone even gets on the list.

    His anti-rejection medicine will cost him (and his insurance company) thousands per month (hence my decision to start a charity in his favor) and make him more prone to getting other illnesses.

    The truth is that transplants don't prevent a single scrap of research towards cures and prevention.

    There is not a single insurance company out there that wouldn't prefer cures to transplants.

    There are no doctors that think that transplants are a suitable alternatives to cures.
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    Re: Arizona Death Panel Claims Another Victim

    Well that's the way these discussions go - someone learns that another is anti-transplants for whatever reasons, gets upset and angry, and in the end the anti-transplant individual is trounced on as if they've done something wrong.

    Notice how I've stated my views - and I'm not getting all worked up over you guys disagreeing with me? That's because I know that getting upset and bothered by our clashing views isn't going to change anything. After being involved in countless discussions of this nature I've not yet changed my views. . . I stand quite firm in my belief and I guess that just makes people more frustrated.

    If you think that trying to harp on emotions when my views aren't emotionally related at all is going to change my long held views you are wasting your breath - or - your fingers.

    I oppose transplants - though overall I don't think it's horribly wrong on an ethical level - thus I prefer our government simply not pay for them. There is no substantial argument that affirms that our government SHOULD pay for them. This goes hand in hand wiht my view that the government shouldn't be involved in our healthcare - PERIOD - transplants or otherwise.

    If a medication costs too damn much - harp on the pharmaceutical companies and their views towards orphan-medications.
    If a procedure is becoming more and more common place yet the cost is climbing higher - harp on the hospital administrate decisions that spike costs. Harp on the medical-supply production companies - harp on legislation that insert more regulation into the medical practices which, also, serve only to raise the cost of said procedures.
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    Re: Arizona Death Panel Claims Another Victim

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Well that's the way these discussions go - someone learns that another is anti-transplants for whatever reasons, gets upset and angry, and in the end the anti-transplant individual is trounced on as if they've done something wrong.
    My statements above were not emotionally based. The issue can be somethign that has emotional meanign for me without my argumetns being based on emotion.

    And don't confuse the fact that you are treated like someone who is wrong with being treated liek somene who is doing something wrong.

    Teh fact of the matter is that you don't know anything about transplants if you think they have a detrimetnal effect of research into cures and prevention.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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    Re: Arizona Death Panel Claims Another Victim

    Meanwhile...back to the OP...

    Was this person REALLY killed because ONE PERSON...Jan Brewer...made the decision in and of herself that transplants did not fit in the Arizona budget? And wasnt this thread about charity? SO...Im still wondering...where was the notification that the problem existed, that the individual needed support for an organ transplant? We see it out here farily commonly where individuals hold bake sales, car washes, and place donation jars at shopping and convenience stores to assist families with needed medical procedures. Did that happen in this case? Did the OP know about this before the person died? Did the OP contribute? OR...did the OP just read another snarky article from a biased website and post about a case the OP had no knowledge of or involvement in? Still havent heard the response to THAT question...

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    Re: Arizona Death Panel Claims Another Victim

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    A right? Who says this? As someone willing to be an organ donor, and someone who thinks transplants are a viable option, exactly who are you talking about?
    I am addressing those that feel AZ should pay for the transplant for people who have no insurance or can't afford it. IMO many people in the US who want govt financed transplants are not donners themselves.
    "I can explain it to you but, I can't understand it for you"

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