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Thread: Arizona Death Panel Claims Another Victim

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    Re: Arizona Death Panel Claims Another Victim

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    To the person dieing quite alot.

    Of course this is more about death panels then what a persons life is worth. Given the outrage of Obama's death panels by many conservatives, I had thought that a conservative state would not decide to let a person die over the cost of a liver transplant
    How 'bout you head on down to AZ and donate your liver?
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    Re: Arizona Death Panel Claims Another Victim

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    To the person dieing quite alot.

    Of course this is more about death panels then what a persons life is worth. Given the outrage of Obama's death panels by many conservatives, I had thought that a conservative state would not decide to let a person die over the cost of a liver transplant
    The state did nothing but concern itself with state-issues.

    The hospital itself who charges the state is at fault for letting a reduction in the budget interfere with their priority: saving lives.
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    Re: Arizona Death Panel Claims Another Victim

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    The state did nothing but concern itself with state-issues.

    The hospital itself who charges the state is at fault for letting a reduction in the budget interfere with their priority: saving lives.
    So regardless of how far the state cuts its funding, the hospital should just keep performing these surgeries? That's a bit absurd.
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    Re: Arizona Death Panel Claims Another Victim

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    You quoted this:



    in your OP. I assumed that you were talking about the amount of money that AZ was spending on transplants.



    I might just be pissing into the wind, but I think a large part of the objections to the concept of "death panels" is associated with the fact that many believe that the expansion of government insurance that some dems want would push private insurance out of the market, making the government's "death panels" a person's last resort for getting health care. That is very different from the current system, where people can obtain private insurance that would also cover the things in the OP. Accordingly, I think there's a pretty substantial distinction that is being glossed over.
    All so called death panels deal with affordability. Private insurance companies limit the type and amount of health care they provide and have to to ensure they remain profitable. Government run health care in the same way has limited funds avaliable for health care.

    In all such cases due to limited funds some people will not receive the health care they require to live. I dont think it particularly matters if it is a government that decides it, an insurance company or someones lack of insurance or money to pay for it personally.
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    Re: Arizona Death Panel Claims Another Victim

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    So regardless of how far the state cuts its funding, the hospital should just keep performing these surgeries? That's a bit absurd.
    We're not talking about a continual budget-cutting . . . how much cutting, I don't know - the article doesn't discuss that (I guess it didn't matter too much)
    They dropped one person. . . one (at least according to article it's just one) - if the system couldn't flex and make it happen for just one person then I seriously question their actual values.

    But we don't have the details - the article is drastically biased and actually provides no solid information. From forbes, of all places, I'd expect something far more substantial.
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    Re: Arizona Death Panel Claims Another Victim

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    We're not talking about a continual budget-cutting . . . how much cutting, I don't know - the article doesn't discuss that (I guess it didn't matter too much)
    They dropped one person. . . one (at least according to article it's just one) - if the system couldn't flex and make it happen for just one person then I seriously question their actual values.

    But we don't have the details - the article is drastically biased and actually provides no solid information. From forbes, of all places, I'd expect something far more substantial.
    The state dropped 99 people from the transplant list, two have died so far
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    Re: Arizona Death Panel Claims Another Victim

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    The state dropped 99 people from the transplant list, two have died so far
    No - there were 99 - then the cut happened
    Now there are 97

    Arizona *use to* provide 1.4 million - now they provide ____

    The Arizona budget that previously provided transplants to people in need was $1.4 million.
    As there were 99 people on the waiting list for transplants at the time the cuts went into effect, the net result is that the State of Arizona valued each of these lives at something less than $14,000 a person.

    Today, there are only 97 on the waiting list as two have passed away.
    It's not even clear on the 2nd person who died - did the 2nd one die while *on* the list?

    As I mentioned in my previous post - we don't know enough about the entire situation. Would this person actually have RECEIVED a donation before death? Why were they drooped and not someone else?

    Someone went down the list - and picked this individual - dropped them and it most certainly wasn't the state.

    Did the donation they might have received if they were still on the list go to someone else?
    Usually the answer is no: rather than budget-cuts being at fault for a transplant-awaiters death it's actually a lack of available organs.

    I might be wrong - but from what I understand is that the list is first-need first-serve unless someone makes an extra effort to bump someone to the top for special reasons.
    So - the first person needing a heart is #1
    The 5th person needing a heart is #5

    The 1st person needing a kidney is #1
    The 5th is #5

    If they drop someone - it's usually based on need (how seriously do they need it?) or their spot on the list (last on is the first to go in the face of such circumstances)

    So - what # was this person? Why were they chosen to be dropped - I think that's more important than anything else.

    The article might be extremely misleading and have their facts wrong - but it really states that only ONE person was dropped from the list because of the budget cut.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 01-09-11 at 02:12 AM.
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    Re: Arizona Death Panel Claims Another Victim

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    *Arizona Death Panel Claims Another Victim* :***** Information Clearing House: ICH



    Where was the charity we are told would assist people like this?
    Big surprise. The state of Arizona values human life at $14,000.

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    Re: Arizona Death Panel Claims Another Victim

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Big surprise. The state of Arizona values human life at $14,000.
    Do you really think that 99 people *ever year get a transplant?

    The state allots $1,400,000 for transplants every year - and there WERE 99 people on the list. That doesn't mean that they were all receiving a transplant within the year. That means that - at maximum - the state would cover 1.4 million in costs. I'm sure a transplant costs far more than a mere $14,000.

    Aside that - don't forget that there are only a few (two) organs that can be donated from a living donor - so the majority of patients are waiting for someone else to die.

    to me - the system chose to drop the patient and it was pre-emptive. It's not like a supply/demand production situation or something. There's no reason to drop someone if it's likely that the majority won't receive a donor organ before they naturally die, anyway.

    Put the blame where it should fall.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 01-09-11 at 02:16 AM.
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    Re: Arizona Death Panel Claims Another Victim

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    There's no reason to drop someone if it's likely that the majority won't receive a donor organ before they naturally die, anyway..
    They do it all the time. For example, if someone waiting for a liver transplant was found to be drinking alcohol, they could be dropped from the list.

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