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In New York City, 41% of pregnancies aborted

BmanMcfly said:
Ya, teach our children proper family values, personal responsibility, and the difference between right and wrong, and psychological help for those women that view pregnancy as a disease, and the baby a tumor. That would reduce the perceived NEED for many abortions...
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No question about that at all, is there?

BmanMcfly said:
Ya, I'm just waiting to be told that my opinions don't matter on abortion because I'm of the same species that infects women with the disease of pregnancy.
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If there were no men, there would be no abortions... Now it's hard to argue against that one. Of course, the human race would be history pretty soon too, so there is a downside.
 
Erod said:
Do you consider a fetus a human? If so, abortion is the taking of a life, and surely you do not support that.
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I find it amusing from a debate and logical thought viewpoint, but sad otherwise, that some folks have twisted their minds about when life begins. It's pretty simple. Conception anyone? When sperm meets egg and those cells start dividing.

The other point is it is called an "abortion". Root word... abort. What is it they are aborting? Life. Innocent, voiceless human life. The most innocent of human life.

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zimmer said:
I find it amusing from a debate and logical thought viewpoint, but sad otherwise, that some folks have twisted their minds about when life begins. It's pretty simple. Conception anyone? When sperm meets egg and those cells start dividing.

The other point is it is called an "abortion". Root word... abort. What is it they are aborting? Life. Innocent, voiceless human life. The most innocent of human life.

.
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And ya... if you have ANY religious inclinations whatsoever, you would understand why to not abort a child...
 
zimmer said:
I find it amusing from a debate and logical thought viewpoint, but sad otherwise, that some folks have twisted their minds about when life begins. It's pretty simple. Conception anyone? When sperm meets egg and those cells start dividing.

The other point is it is called an "abortion". Root word... abort. What is it they are aborting? Life. Innocent, voiceless human life. The most innocent of human life.

.
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Miosis and Mitosis are both cellular functions which depend on chemical stimulae. IT is not a consciencous decisions made on behalf of the cell who said "yes, I will grow now!"

According to your definition a sperm alone is 'life'

You know - the ancient Greeks defined life by movement - if it moved it was considered alive. That meant that magnets were alive among other things. . . are magnets alive?

The "moment of life" or what it takes to declare something "alive" has been debated on for centuries - if after centuries of debate we can't decide on something then I'm not about to use it to shape any view I hold.

As I bring up most frequently: it is not about where YOU think life begins or ends. It is about finances, health, emotional stability, reliability and overall quality of life.

I don't care about quantity - I want the quality of prenatal care and all those many child-rearing years to be solid.
 
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BmanMcfly said:
And ya... if you have ANY religious inclinations whatsoever, you would understand why to not abort a child...
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This is an inane blanket statement. There are those that believe in God and still support the right to an abortion. Or am I missing something?
 
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Kal'Stang said:
This is an inane blanket statement. There are those that believe in God and still support the right to an abortion. Or am I missing something?
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Well, to my knowledge, there is NOT ONE religion out there that says that ending a persons life is wrong, BUT you DO have the right to defend yourself.

So, yes, it is a blanket statement, BUT, unless there's a pro-choice sect of some religion that I'm not familiar with, the simple truth is that killing is universally considered wrong, though you ARE within your rights to defend yourself. Any church that goes beyond that isn't really speaking from the point of view of the church, but their own twisting of their own teachings.

That said, it wasn't my intention to shift this into a debate about religion.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
It is about finances, health, emotional stability, reliability and overall quality of life.
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nice, put finance first in your list of concerns regarding terminating a life. that's how you convince them it's ok.

i'm curious how many libs would remain pro-abortion when they realize 90% of the time it's used to suppress minority populations.
 
Zyroh said:
nice, put finance first in your list of concerns regarding terminating a life. that's how you convince them it's ok.

i'm curious how many libs would remain pro-abortion when they realize 90% of the time it's used to suppress minority populations.
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Who do you think is using it? It still is the individual's choice, isn't it?

Or do we have mandated abortions now?
 
Hey! This is a good thing. It's better than last year.
 
Zyroh said:
nice, put finance first in your list of concerns regarding terminating a life. that's how you convince them it's ok.

i'm curious how many libs would remain pro-abortion when they realize 90% of the time it's used to suppress minority populations.
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Why did you read a short list and assume that I put it in order of importance?
I actually consider reliability of the mother (and father) to be most important (not necessarily biological) - if you're genuinely interested.
 
Sean_H said:
You can't force someone to carry a child. And, did you know that any cell could become a person through cloning, so by your logic every cell is a human being.
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No offense (which is what people say right before they offend you), but that's ridiculous.

If you leave a fertilized egg alone, it will become a human being in all likelihood with no outside interaction.

To clone a cell takes white-coated scientists with an intended purpose and lots of help.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Several reactions:

1. That statistic is astounding and disheartening. 41% is a sickening rate of abortion, and shows just how messed up our society has become.
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Whaddya' mean "our" society?

2. What makes you think those babies would grow up to be Democrats? Doesn't NY have a Republican mayor?
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Bloomberg is not a republican.


3. What makes you think that most of those abortions weren't paid for by the government in one way or another?
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There's a thought. I could just be paying for fools to kill themselves off. Perhaps I should rethink my opposition to abortion.........for some. ;)

4. Just from a purely economic standpoint, an abortion is cheaper than a delivery, isn't it?
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....and they say you can't put a price on a human life. :shock: We'll have to amend that to .......unless you're a liberal/leftist. :mrgreen:
 
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Wow, all I can say...I'm all for a woman's right to choose but 60% is outrageous. I'm thinking these abortions have an extremely strong correlation to poverty and income levels.
 
Dutch said:
Whaddya' mean "our" society?
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Ours, as in American society. Abortion doesn't play a part in my world, and probably not in yours either, but it most certainly does in 21st. Century America.

Dutch said:
Bloomberg is not a republican.
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I stand corrected.

Does that make NY a Democrat city?


Dutch said:
There's a thought. I could just be paying for fools to kill themselves off. Perhaps I should rethink my opposition to abortion.........for some. ;)
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Only if you could be in charge of deciding who gets aborted. The whole idea is individual choice.



Dutch said:
....and they say you can't put a price on a human life. :shock: We'll have to amend that to .......unless you're a liberal/leftist. :mrgreen:
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The comment was about how much all of the abortions would cost if paid for by the government. Imagine how much all of the deliveries would cost...

Oh, no! That would be a death panel, wouldn't it? Sorry, Miss, but the government won't pay for your delivery. You'll have to have an abortion.
 
BCR said:
I'm all for a woman's right to choose but 60% is outrageous. I'm thinking these abortions have an extremely strong correlation to poverty and income levels.
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A woman only aborts when her situation is intolerable or impossible, rarely because of frivolous reasons.

ricksfolly
 
BCR said:
Wow, all I can say...I'm all for a woman's right to choose but 60% is outrageous. I'm thinking these abortions have an extremely strong correlation to poverty and income levels.
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You hope. Some 60% of abortions are to us "poor" folk. Middle and upper class women account for the rest. Fact is american liberals/leftists have been very successful at creating a culture of death. Stalin, hitler, pol pot, kim il sung would approve, for that matter i'm guessing so would bin laden.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Ours, as in American society. Abortion doesn't play a part in my world, and probably not in yours either, but it most certainly does in 21st. Century America.
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There are several "american" societies. Mine doesn't kill our young as frequently as yours.
source

Furthermore, the five states where John McCain received the highest percentage of votes in 2008 had an average abortion rate of 6.9. The five states where Barack Obama received the highest percentage of votes in 2008 had an average abortion rate of 22.6. Overall, it seems clear that politically conservative states have, on average, lower abortion rates, than their more liberal counterparts.
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I stand corrected.
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You're forgiven. In his political career bloomberg has been; a democrat, republican, and now an independent. I consider him something of a political opportunist.



Does that make NY a Democrat city?
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It makes it a liberal city largely represented by the democratic party.

Only if you could be in charge of deciding who gets aborted. The whole idea is individual choice.
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You mean "killed." Who gets to decide who gets "killed." You are aware of thomas hobbs and his social contract theory? When we give up the complete freedom of nature (such as the freedom to kill) in order to maintain social order we receive something in return (such as the freedom from being killed).

.....In this condition, an individual’s actions are bound only by his or her personal power, constrained by conscience, and outside resistance. From this common starting point, the various proponents of social contract theory attempt to explain, in different ways, why it is in an individual’s rational self-interest to voluntarily give up the freedom one has in the state of nature in order to obtain the benefits of political order......
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The comment was about how much all of the abortions would cost if paid for by the government. Imagine how much all of the deliveries would cost...
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Shouldn't that be the responsibilty of those having the baby?


Oh, no! That would be a death panel, wouldn't it? Sorry, Miss, but the government won't pay for your delivery. You'll have to have an abortion.
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Again, I believe the parents of the children should be responsible for their children not an all powerful central government or it's bureaucrats. Stop looking for more jobs the federal government cannot do well.
 
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ricksfolly said:
A woman only aborts when her situation is intolerable or impossible, rarely because of frivolous reasons.

ricksfolly
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I'm certain this belief makes you feel comfortable and, perhaps, blinds you to the numbers of young being killed. However, neither you nor I can know this for certain. So, why say it?
 
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Dutch said:
There are several "american" societies. Mine doesn't kill our young as frequently as yours.
source
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There may be fewer abortions in your state than in mine. No doubt there are more among Democrats than among Republicans, as the latter is more likely to be pro life.

Hey! Maybe it's a plot by Republicans to.... No, that's just paranoia, much like the idea that abortion is being used to decrease the number of blacks.


Dutch said:
You're forgiven. In his political career bloomberg has been; a democrat, republican, and now an independent. I consider him something of a political opportunist.
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Political opportunist... isn't that redundant?


Dutch said:
Shouldn't that be the responsibilty of those having the baby?
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Certainly, as should the decision of whether or not to carry the pregnancy to term. Authority to make decisions should be tied to responsibility.


Dutch said:
Again, I believe the parents of the children should be responsible for their children not an all powerful central government or it's bureaucrats. Stop looking for more jobs the federal government cannot do well.
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Can't disagree with that one.
 
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Dittohead not! said:
There may be fewer abortions in your state than in mine. No doubt there are more among Democrats than among Republicans, as the latter is more likely to be pro life.

Hey! Maybe it's a plot by Republicans to.... No, that's just paranoia, much like the idea that abortion is being used to decrease the number of blacks.
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In point of fact.......source

She discussed her views on abortion rights and sexual equality in a 2009 New York Times interview, in which she said regarding abortion that "[t]he basic thing is that the government has no business making that choice for a woman."[20] One statement she made during the interview ("Frankly, I had thought at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don't want to have too many of.")[20]





Political opportunist... isn't that redundant?
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Point taken. :mrgreen:


Certainly, as should the decision of whether or not to carry the pregnancy to term. Authority to make decisions should be tied to responsibility.
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On this we disagree.




Can't disagree with that one.
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....and on this one we agree. ;)
 
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digsbe said:
I think we would have preffered 49.5 living people who weren't murdered by their mother's and "doctor."
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Even if they were New Yorkers? Can you imagine the impact that would have had on the last election?
 
Dutch said:
particularly growth in populations that we don't want to have too many of[/B].")
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I think we have all the New Yorkers we need, at present, if not way more than is beneficial.

p.s. Stop with the stupid annoying font.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
I support my view quite sufficiently - mine hinges heavily one the inescapable financial, emotional, and practicle aspects of parents and family-rearing.
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You mean convenience.

Though I oppose abortion-for-convenience - a large % of abortions are for legitimate and very understandable reasons.
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Convenience is legitimate?

Here is the breakdown of why women abort.
Reasons for abortions... convenience denoted on Bold Red

In 2000, cases of rape or incest accounted for 1% of abortions.[28] Another study, in 1998, revealed that in 1987-1988 women reported the following reasons for choosing an abortion:[29]

25.5% Want to postpone childbearing
21.3% Cannot afford a baby
14.1% Has relationship problem or partner does not want pregnancy
12.2% Too young; parent(s) or other(s) object to pregnancy
10.8% Having a child will disrupt education or job
7.9% Want no (more) children
* 3.3% Risk to fetal health
* 2.8% Risk to maternal health
* 2.1% Other
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Abortion in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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That illustrates 91.8% of abortions are for convenience.
It jibes with the fact about 150,000 abortions were performed in 1970. Since Roe v. Wade is has been about a million per year.

Then we have this about late term abortions:
Convenience denoted on Bold Red

According to a 1987 study that included specific data about late abortions (i.e. abortions “at 16 or more weeks' gestation”),[30] women reported that various reasons contributed to their having a late abortion:

71% Woman didn't recognize she was pregnant or misjudged gestation
48% Woman found it hard to make arrangements for abortion
33% Woman was afraid to tell her partner or parents
24% Woman took time to decide to have an abortion
8% Woman waited for her relationship to change
8% Someone pressured woman not to have abortion
6% Something changed after woman became pregnant
6% Woman didn't know timing is important
* 5% Woman didn't know she could get an abortion
* 2% A fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy
* 11% Other.
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Only 2% were health related. Of the 11% we don't know.

Conservatively, about 36 million of 40 million abortions since Roe v. Wade have been for convenience.

Pretty sad.

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