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Thread: In New York City, 41% of pregnancies aborted

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    Re: In New York City, 41% of pregnancies aborted

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    I don't know when we have killed in excess of a million innocent people a year over a forty year period for convenience. Of course it isn't callous if you don't find killing offensive. Which bring me back to my point; it's callous and irresponsible. People slough it off with crap like coy remarks about 200-years ago and nothing more to support their case.

    If you can find me a time when we killed more than a million a year for convenience, then you might have a point. But you cannot.

    And of course, people rarely get fed information by the journOlists against snuffing more than a million a year. Too bad we don't get an abortion count like we got the Iraq War Deaths Count every damn night it seemed. Something like:

    In the first 10-days of 2011,
    we have had in excess of 30,000 abortions already.

    Not callous?



    .
    Your data doesn't clarify a lot of things, but correlation doesn't equal causation, maybe people who have unplanned pregnancies (a likely candidate for abortion) are more likely to commit suicide. Point is having an abortion doesn't make you kill yourself. Even if the risks work the way you say, I can name a number of legal things in this country that greatly increase the risk of suicide that are entirely legal. Alcoholics are substantially more likely to commit suicide than non-alcoholics, in fact about a third of people who commit suicide are alcoholics Alcoholic Suicide - Suicide Risk Among Alcoholics Increases With Age. Gamblers, smokers, and people who were recently fired are also at greater risk.
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    Re: In New York City, 41% of pregnancies aborted

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Cost wise is specifically what he was referring to - and yes.
    An abortion is a short, outpatient procedure.
    A delivery is not.

    logically - you simply cannot unmake that fact. It is true regardless of emotional reaction.

    It also costs more to raise a child than it costs to not raise a child - gee, imagine that.

    Like it or not - life costs money. It in fact costs a lot of money. when you don't have a lot of money you're just living next to homeless.

    I feel bad for people who go through this entire situation in their personal lives. On one hand they have the pro-life crowd pressuring them to have another child. Then they have the pro-choice supporting, maybe. Then they have those who don't want them dependent on the government for support - and who negatively chide them for having more children . . . and then family - maybe their family doesn't want them to have the child. Maybe their partner promised to be there and then bailed (it's happened to me - happens to a lot).

    What a ****ty situation to be in - where people will hold it against you and loath you no matter what you do.
    The fact that he tried to even make the argument that way, was my contention.
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    Re: In New York City, 41% of pregnancies aborted

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    I don't know when we have killed in excess of a million innocent people a year over a forty year period for convenience. Of course it isn't callous if you don't find killing offensive. Which bring me back to my point; it's callous and irresponsible. People slough it off with crap like coy remarks about 200-years ago and nothing more to support their case.

    If you can find me a time when we killed more than a million a year for convenience, then you might have a point. But you cannot.

    And of course, people rarely get fed information by the journOlists against snuffing more than a million a year. Too bad we don't get an abortion count like we got the Iraq War Deaths Count every damn night it seemed. Something like:

    In the first 10-days of 2011,
    we have had in excess of 30,000 abortions already.

    Not callous?

    .
    I support my view quite sufficiently - mine hinges heavily one the inescapable financial, emotional, and practicle aspects of parents and family-rearing.
    Though I oppose abortion-for-convenience - a large % of abortions are for legitimate and very understandable reasons.

    You see the problem: 49million + fetuses have been aborted. . . and you want THAT fixed.

    I see the problem: 49million + mothers were living in less-than-ideal situations to have a child or add to their already existing family. (Nevermind the fathers - a large percentage aren't married and are too young and immature to properly raise a child). . . and I want THAT fixed.

    I was 17 when I had my oldest - I'm now 30 and in college. Lucky for me I met someone who was fine with me being a stay at home mom for our children and who was fine with me slowly coming around to BEING a mother. Him being in my life has been essential - a key component in me actually growing up and becoming a responsible adult.

    If I didn't have my husband I'd be another statistically ****ty mom living in the ghetto.

    Ergo - I know that countless others DON'T have a single iota of sense in their heads to actually make sound parenting decisions. whether you want to believe it or not - THAT is essential. There are NOT 49+million single, wealthy couples willing to adopt all those children.

    And to think that if we banned abortion they'd all grow out of the thought processes that lead to their situations is overlooking all the many facts of human nature and history.

    But if you want to call this mom of 4 callous because I know how hard and next to impossible it is to have children - suit yourself. I don't hold my view to PLEASE YOU and make you feel good.
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    Re: In New York City, 41% of pregnancies aborted

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    No, it doesn't include their choice. Why should it?
    They aren't on their own and making their own choices until much later in life - up until then they're the charge of someone else.

    Until my kids grow up and move out - their lives are 100% my decision.
    So you can whack your 5-year-old, too?

    There is no sane argument for abortion. Zero, zilch, nada. You have to really twist your mind to come to terms with it. It's chilling, frankly.

    The same people who oppose killing a serial murderer are perfectly fine with killing a baby. The greatest political contradiction of all time.
    Last edited by Erod; 01-11-11 at 10:28 AM.

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    Re: In New York City, 41% of pregnancies aborted

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Why would a 24 year old be living at home?
    Legally - they can live on their own by the age of 18. . . sooner if they are capable and have my consent or emancipate their selves.

    My purpose as a parent is to ready them for their own future - and in order to do that efficiently I must parent well, ensure an adequate education - and an essential step in this is getting the little fledglings to leave the nest.

    I fail to see how that relates to the subject in question, though.

    But what is slightly related is the legally-upheld theory that while they ARE underage and living at home, on my health insurance and so on - 100% my charge - that they have the right to conceive, pursue abortion, and keep it from me. . . which I disagree with. But we've debated that elsewhere.
    puh...puh.....pa...please. We are a nation that prides itself on "family" morals. But yet too many American's share your believe. Or if they don't want to kick their children out, their children leave anyway and the parents are stuck waiting and hoping for their kids to return, if they ever will.

    Its why I am glad you believe in abortion. Have you aborted your children yet? I believe we have one too many callous people in this nation. And you are part of the blame.

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    Re: In New York City, 41% of pregnancies aborted

    *snip - double post*
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 01-11-11 at 11:09 AM.
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    Re: In New York City, 41% of pregnancies aborted

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    So you can whack your 5-year-old, too?
    Do you think I actually value and equate a matured fetus, born infant, toddler, or young child to an undeveloped collection of cells?
    Obviously I don't - but yet you're attempting that approach anyway - does it work for you with other people?

    I don't even support 'whacking' a 6 month fetus - or even a 3 month fetus. I only supported abortion in the first 2 months - not even the full first trimester. . .and most others do, as well- that's when the majority of abortions are performed.

    There is no sane argument for abortion. Zero, zilch, nada. You have to really twist your mind to come to terms with it. It's chilling, frankly.
    I simply live in a realistic world and I accept life as it is - I don't try to warp human nature and reality into something it's not. I prefer women don't abort - I prefer that everyone be a loving, caring, capable parent - but everyone is not. I believe that raising a child should be done if you are financially sound OR if you can adequately deal with *not* being financially sound. I also believe parents should be able to actually PARENT their children, raise them well, and progress forward mentally and emotionally - not digress - due to having children.

    I most certainly don't expect, require or demand that people raise a child alone or in less than desirable circumstances - if their partner was there for the conception then the problem is between two people - not everyone else.

    I think pro-life people who have no flex or understanding on the entire subject live in a false reality, completely disconnected from the hardcore and inescapable facts of humanity and the challenges of parenting.

    The same people who oppose killing a serial murderer are perfectly fine with killing a baby. The greatest political contradiction of all time.
    Well I'm not one of those - like with abortion - ending a life has to be for adequate and legitimate reasons. . . but I don't expect you to remember every thread we've been in that hashed this out.

    You know what doesn't make sense to me? Why conservative generally are anti-abortion - while not all - but quite a few are opposed to welfare.

    What is to be drawn from that? That people are willing to force those into the very status of life that is loathed?
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    Re: In New York City, 41% of pregnancies aborted

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Do you think I actually value and equate a matured fetus, born infant, toddler, or young child to an undeveloped collection of cells?
    Obviously I don't - but yet you're attempting that approach anyway - does it work for you with other people?

    I don't even support 'whacking' a 6 month fetus - or even a 3 month fetus. I only supported abortion in the first 2 months - not even the full first trimester. . .and most others do, as well- that's when the majority of abortions are performed.



    I simply live in a realistic world and I accept life as it is - I don't try to warp human nature and reality into something it's not. I prefer women don't abort - I prefer that everyone be a loving, caring, capable parent - but everyone is not. I believe that raising a child should be done if you are financially sound OR if you can adequately deal with *not* being financially sound. I also believe parents should be able to actually PARENT their children, raise them well, and progress forward mentally and emotionally - not digress - due to having children.

    I most certainly don't expect, require or demand that people raise a child alone or in less than desirable circumstances - if their partner was there for the conception then the problem is between two people - not everyone else.

    I think pro-life people who have no flex or understanding on the entire subject live in a false reality, completely disconnected from the hardcore and inescapable facts of humanity and the challenges of parenting.



    Well I'm not one of those - like with abortion - ending a life has to be for adequate and legitimate reasons. . . but I don't expect you to remember every thread we've been in that hashed this out.
    You know what doesn't make sense to me? Why conservative generally are anti-abortion - while not all - but quite a few are opposed to welfare.

    What is to be drawn from that? That people are willing to force those into the very status of life that is loathed?
    Well, first, I apologize for categorizing your stance on the death penalty without asking. Out of line on my part.

    Conservatives - at least the real ones - promote personal accountabililty. When you have kids, you give up your life in many respects, and rightly so. That's not a bad thing; in fact, it's a wonderful thing if you let it be. But once that "collection of cells" is there, YOUR life is not your own anymore, not for you or daddy. That's just what good people do.

    In most cases, welfare flies in the face of accountability, although there are ABSOLUTELY situations that justify it. Conservatives aren't against welfare in principle, but it is applied in such a ridiculous and unwarranted fashion. Unfortunately, there's an infintesimally small percentage of welfare recipients who are actually trying hard to get off it. Most consider it "owed" to them, which is why conservatives despise it so. It's become an institutional teet for Democratic votes. (I once qualified for it, I'm sure, but the thought of applying for it instead of working my way out of it didn't occur to me.)

    I think every "collection of cells" deserves a chance. Aren't we all just a "collection of cells" in the end?

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    Re: In New York City, 41% of pregnancies aborted

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray_Fox_86 View Post
    puh...puh.....pa...please. We are a nation that prides itself on "family" morals.
    HAH! Bull****. We're a nation built on the subjucation, oppression and enslavement of people - first the African Americans and now whatever illegal alien wishes to cross our borders and work the fields for crap wages.

    You might with to think it is *so* - but that does not make it *so*

    But yet too many American's share your believe.
    And yet many American's share your belief, as well.

    Good - everyone's an individual and looking out for their own values. Unfortunately - your group of people want to push your views on my group of people. Oddly - if the pro-choice group was to actually do that we'd be no better than China.

    Or if they don't want to kick their children out, their children leave anyway and the parents are stuck waiting and hoping for their kids to return, if they ever will.
    What does this have to do with the subject at hand?

    Its why I am glad you believe in abortion. Have you aborted your children yet?
    I HAVE 4 children so that means, no, I did not abort them.
    I also don't EXPECT or DEMAND that anyone else do what they don't want to do - if someone doesn't want to abort then I'm all for that and support their desire and effort to be a parent.

    In fact - I didn't support abortion AT ALL until after I had all of my children. My initial change came from the many health and other problems I suffered through while pregnant - during my last pregnancy my body completely fell apart in more ways than one. If you care to learn more you can, by all means, read all my other posts about abortion and my illnesses that I suffered through because of pregnancy, etc etc etc.

    But I know that by bringing up my children you're trying to incite me to anger or other emotion - which doesn't work with me. (See - I'm so callous I don't feel anything anymore! Hit me with your best shot - fire away . . . and for that I get horrible person reps for tossing into a depressing subject a peppy pop tune line without shame.)

    Edit to blend two different posts together:
    [QUOTE=Erod;1059210695]Well, first, I apologize for categorizing your stance on the death penalty without asking. Out of line on my part.[quote]

    It's fine, no big deal - it might not be true for me but, yes, it's true for quite a few.

    Conservatives - at least the real ones - promote personal accountabililty. When you have kids, you give up your life in many respects, and rightly so. That's not a bad thing; in fact, it's a wonderful thing if you let it be. But once that "collection of cells" is there, YOUR life is not your own anymore, not for you or daddy. That's just what good people do.
    Indeed - true - it is not your life anymore.
    But that doesn't change the fact that many cannot change their life for the sake of a pregnancy. Often that very blessing can turn into a curse - it's just human nature.

    In most cases, welfare flies in the face of accountability, although there are ABSOLUTELY situations that justify it. Conservatives aren't against welfare in principle, but it is applied in such a ridiculous and unwarranted fashion. Unfortunately, there's an infintesimally small percentage of welfare recipients who are actually trying hard to get off it. Most consider it "owed" to them, which is why conservatives despise it so. It's become an institutional teet for Democratic votes. (I once qualified for it, I'm sure, but the thought of applying for it instead of working my way out of it didn't occur to me.)
    I'm fiscally Conservative - we both seem to have that in common and we both prefer everyone be sound, reasonable and capable people
    And I'm sure you realize that it's just not that way - we just have different views as to how that applies to the abortion subject.

    BE careful when drawing political lines, though. Many many Liberals OPPOSE it - and many many Conservatives SUPPORT it.

    This is part of the reason why I don't label my views - it leads people to draw conclusions (that are often wrong) about where you stand on many issues and you get swept into the fray - guilty by association - which is something I loath.

    I think every "collection of cells" deserves a chance. Aren't we all just a "collection of cells" in the end?
    It's such a heavy, demanding and life-long commitment that I think 'giving it a chance' (the phrase and idea) is to cookie-cutter.

    As I often say: *I would hold a more pro-life view if we could improve our entire world and overall society* - until that happens I will stay as I am.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 01-11-11 at 11:29 AM.
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    Re: In New York City, 41% of pregnancies aborted

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    I support my view quite sufficiently - mine hinges heavily one the inescapable financial, emotional, and practicle aspects of parents and family-rearing.
    Though I oppose abortion-for-convenience - a large % of abortions are for legitimate and very understandable reasons.

    You see the problem: 49million + fetuses have been aborted. . . and you want THAT fixed.

    I see the problem: 49million + mothers were living in less-than-ideal situations to have a child or add to their already existing family. (Nevermind the fathers - a large percentage aren't married and are too young and immature to properly raise a child). . . and I want THAT fixed.

    I was 17 when I had my oldest - I'm now 30 and in college. Lucky for me I met someone who was fine with me being a stay at home mom for our children and who was fine with me slowly coming around to BEING a mother. Him being in my life has been essential - a key component in me actually growing up and becoming a responsible adult.

    If I didn't have my husband I'd be another statistically ****ty mom living in the ghetto.

    Ergo - I know that countless others DON'T have a single iota of sense in their heads to actually make sound parenting decisions. whether you want to believe it or not - THAT is essential. There are NOT 49+million single, wealthy couples willing to adopt all those children.

    And to think that if we banned abortion they'd all grow out of the thought processes that lead to their situations is overlooking all the many facts of human nature and history.

    But if you want to call this mom of 4 callous because I know how hard and next to impossible it is to have children - suit yourself. I don't hold my view to PLEASE YOU and make you feel good.
    I would have less problem with abortion if the laws concerning abortion were created where they should be. With the legislative bodies, not by judicial fiat. Roe v. Wade was a huge judicial overreach.

    49 million abortions, and most for convenience sake, let's not kid ourselves here. The abortion clinic is like a garbage dump. People that believe the most innocent and voiceless human life gets dumped there... out of convenience. If they valued life, they wouldn't end up there. 49 million times... a million a year. It's simply staggering.


    "If they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby."
    Callous and careless.
    Last edited by zimmer; 01-11-11 at 01:48 PM.
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