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Kiss your 100-watt lightbulb goodbye

We have lots of oil in the USA, just not always the good, sweet crude, or where it is easy to get at, or mixed in with sand, shale, etc.
Gas prices will go up, we have no choice.

Especially, if there's a 13% decrease in domestic production, to be 25% by the end of 2011.

Yeah! Cut production. That'll fix everything.
 
So, the solution, is to pass legislation that protects the environment and kills jobs. How does that have a hppy ending, again?

I have seen no environmental legislation under this Congress that kills jobs. Let's see your evidence of that statement.
 
What really disturbs me is a country already 40 years behind in energy planning now grousing about leadership to provide the same light for less money? Speaking as someone who has waited 40 years for the market place to catch up, it is about time we had some leadership in government for energy efficiency. I can tell you from experience, if we wait for the energy "industry" to look out on our behalf, you are going to be waiting a long time, more time than we have to address our energy problems.

40 years behind in energy planning? What the heck are you basing that on? The fact that we have regulations up the wazoo, preventing domestic energy production or are you just making crap up now?
 
LOL! How appropriate to quote the father of our energy crisis! I needed that, thanks!



Disregard my last question. To claim that Regan is the father of our current energy crisis is asinine and clears things up for me. I don’t waste my time on trolls and you really look like you are trolling right now.
 
40 years behind in energy planning? What the heck are you basing that on? The fact that we have regulations up the wazoo, preventing domestic energy production or are you just making crap up now?

Don't know how you missed it but we passed peak oil in this country 40 years ago. 1970 was the last year we could produce as much oil as we consumed. Regulations had nothing to do with it. The oil company execs themselves state in Cheney's Energy Task Force Report that even with expanded drilling offshore and in ANWR we cannot keep up with America's demand for affordable oil.
 
Don't know how you missed it but we passed peak oil in this country 40 years ago. 1970 was the last year we could produce as much oil as we consumed. Regulations had nothing to do with it. The oil company execs themselves state in Cheney's Energy Task Force Report that even with expanded drilling offshore and in ANWR we cannot keep up with America's demand for affordable oil.

Regan wasn’t president until 1981. Obviously you don’t value facts much if you call Regan the father of our energy crisis when it was Nixon who imposed price controls on domestic oil in 1979 and we had an OAPEC oil embargo in 1973.

There hasn’t been a nuclear reactor built in the USA since 1974. Do you think that’s because the US is 40 years behind the times or would you be willing to admit that regulations are at fault here?

If we build nuclear power plants, drill domestically, mine domestically and build more hydro-electric dams, we aren’t going to have an energy crisis in our lifetimes.
 
If you can call any president the father of our current energy crisis, you would have to blame Nixon. Get your history straight or unplug your keyboard Catawba.
 
Disregard my last question. To claim that Regan is the father of our current energy crisis is asinine and clears things up for me. I don’t waste my time on trolls and you really look like you are trolling right now.

I thought it was common knowledge now.

"Yet, if there were a single major villain responsible for our dependence on foreign oil it is Ronald Reagan himself.

During the rise in the oil prices following the Iranian revolution, President Jimmy Carter announced policies that would prevent the US from ever importing a single drop of oil more per year than in 1979. The program included subsidies for alternative energies and serial increases in the efficiency (C.A.F.E. = corporate average fuel economy) standards for automobiles

Carter called it, presciently, "the moral equivalent of war". Anyone today doubting Carter's insight? Any takers at the Republican National Convention?

Regrettably, a Republican PR operation realized that the acronym spelled out "m.e.o.w", and they pounced on the program using "meow" to ridicule it. Ronald Reagan then convinced the American people that conservation was beneath them, and he not only cut the subsidies, he also phased out the CAFE standards.

It may bear repeating the obvious: every gallon of oil saved by efficiency is a gift that keeps on giving, year-after-year another gallon is not burned. By contrast every gallon produced is used once, and is then gone forever. Of course, oil companies do not make money when you do not burn that gallon every year.

And, now, the tragic truth: had Reagan left those CAFE standards in place, and the US had continued to conserve oil at the same rate as it had from 1979-85, the US today would be importing not a single drop of oil from the Persian Gulf. Not one. Zilch. Zorch. Nada. (See, e.g., Amory Lovins, "Energy Security Facts", Rocky Mountain Institute).

Imagine what benefits there would have been had Reagan not used the Iranian situation for partisan political gain. Start with Detroit. Instead of being far behind the efficiency curve, and losing out to foreign competitors (from countries where the price of gasoline was higher, and thus were producing higher efficiency engines), US automakers would be healthy, and right in the thick of it. Employment levels would be up in Michigan, and high wage jobs would be growing not shrinking. Add to that US ingenuity, and we may well have been the leaders in the world in fuel-efficient and/or alternative energy using automobiles.

Jump now to our foreign debt. Instead of being beholden to close allies like China to hold (and not demand payment) of our debt, our balance of payments would be, if not positive, at least not nearly so negative. The dollar would be higher, as countries would have more confidence in the greenback's value.

Consider our foreign policy. We would no longer be at the mercy of rogue nations, and those countries would not have the resources to support their terrorist activities and their pursuit of weapons of mass destruction. To be sure, North Korea and Pakistan, and even Israel, have shown that even poor nations can develop nuclear weapons, but North Korea has done so in part because they believe there is a potential market for their technology among the oil-producing states and Pakistan was likely funded by Libya and other oil-producers. Israel was aided by France. Without dealing in absolutes, we can confidently assert that the world would have been a far less dangerous place.

Consider health. Our air would be cleaner. Asthma rates in children have doubled almost every decade, and asthmatic attacks have become a major cause of absences among schoolchildren. Large populations of young children chronically inhale steroids to prevent such asthmatic attacks.

Oh yes, what about the small matter of global warming? Let us just say that our challenges in preventing future catastrophe would be far less daunting. To warm the cockles of Republicans' hearts, Al Gore may never have won the Nobel Prize.

Ronald Reagan does not deserve all the blame. Having outflanked the Democrats politically on both energy and tax policy, the progressive impulse among the opposition vanished with Reagan's landslide victory in 1984. Bush, always trying to ape Reagan to outdo his father, managed to cancel the remaining tax-credits for purchasing hybrid cars, weakened efficiency standards for nearly everything, provided enormous tax breaks for Hummers and other gas-guzzlers.

Outside the Republican convention, however, that victory rings very hollow 25 years, two World Trade Center towers and two Persian Gulf Wars later.

The next time you fork out $50 to fill your tank with gas, or send your son or daughter off to Iraq, thank Ronald Reagan (with a tip of the hat to George W Bush)."
Paul Abrams: There is a "Villain" In Our Dependence on Foreign Oil and His Name is Ronald Reagan
 
40 years behind in energy planning? What the heck are you basing that on? The fact that we have regulations up the wazoo, preventing domestic energy production or are you just making crap up now?

Jimmy Carter was the only president to attempt to have an energy plan....Reagan had his own plan, it was to kill off as much of Carter's plan as he could.....
 
Sorry, but I can't hear anything over the constant cry over no alternative energy funding and the retarded conclusions with no evidence.
 
Sorry, but I can't hear anything over the constant cry over no alternative energy funding and the retarded conclusions with no evidence.



I don't recall anyone saying there had been no alternative energy funding. Can you cite the post?
 
The program included subsidies for alternative energies

he not only cut the subsidies

Did I miss the part where it says the opposite or this somehow loses its meaning.
 
Did I miss the part where it says the opposite or this somehow loses its meaning.

Perhaps this will help clarify.

"Reagan is a key reason we have only about one-sixth of the soaring global market for windpower — an industry we once dominated: “President Reagan cut the renewable energy R&D budget 85% after he took office and eliminated the wind investment tax credit in 1986. This was pretty much the death of most of the US wind industry” (see “Anti-wind McCain delivers climate remarks at foreign wind company“).

Reagan gutted Carter’s entire multi-billion dollar clean energy and energy efficiency effort. He opposed and then rolled back fuel economy standards. Reagan turned all such commonsense strategies into “liberal” policies that must be opposed by any true conservative, a position embraced all too consistently by conservative leaders from Gingrich to Bush/Cheney and now to John McCain."
Who got us in this energy mess? Start with Ronald Reagan « Climate Progress
 
You just said he cut it altogether. Something I claimed you were crying over.

Nice job failing.

Oh and something that uses oil can't exactly replace it...........just sayin'

It is only to note that if you think the answer is private enterprise, then drive to the nearest gas station and admire the prices brought to you by private companies.

Also this line is beyond stupid. As this moron should be aware companies would charge far less if it wasn't for the government, but alas, that is not something he wants to mention.
 
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You just said he cut it altogether.

You need to re-read what I said and quoted. Reagan cut the subsidies (tax credits for alternative energy) altogether, he slashed the R&D funding by 85% and he phased out the CAFE standards.
 
Oh my, you quote Paul Abrams of the Huffington Post and claim “I thought it was common knowledge now”? I’m not sure what planet you live on but most of us don’t read that rag because of trash articles like this.

And, now, the tragic truth: had Reagan left those CAFE standards in place, and the US had continued to conserve oil at the same rate as it had from 1979-85, the US today would be importing not a single drop of oil from the Persian Gulf.

So your source takes the projected savings from a peanut farmer’s pipe dream plan, applies that to a 6 year timeline and doesn’t account for economic growth or the energy consumption required to produce and market ethanol or the economic inflation caused by grain being diverted to less efficient fuel sources such as ethanol, and plots an imaginary line across said 6 year timeline and projects it 25 years into the future without any consideration of other influencing factors during that 25 year history and you call that science?

Pardon me if I “El Oh El” but this is fresh. You do realize that even Al Gore recently denounced ethanol as an alternative energy source don’t you?
Jump now to our foreign debt. Instead of being beholden to close allies like China to hold (and not demand payment) of our debt, our balance of payments would be, if not positive, at least not nearly so negative. The dollar would be higher, as countries would have more confidence in the greenback's value.

So you contend that we are in debt because we didn’t do what Jimmy Carter proposed with his energy bill? Medicare and Social Security were obviously neutral factors in your model. Do you really expect an intelligent person to buy into this crap?
 
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So your source takes the projected savings from a peanut farmer’s pipe dream plan, applies that to a 6 year timeline and doesn’t account for economic growth or the energy consumption required to produce and market ethanol or the economic inflation caused by grain being diverted to less efficient fuel sources such as ethanol, and plots an imaginary line across said 6 year timeline and projects it 25 years into the future without any consideration of other influencing factors during that 25 year history and you call that science?

You do realize that even Al Gore recently denounced ethanol as an alternative energy source don’t you?

I've not endorsed or even mentioned ethanol. However, while I agree that food based ethanol is a non-starter, non-food based ethanol still has promise, particularly with algae. This was but one of the energy options explored by the R&D funding. The referenced report was by the Rocky Mountain Institute. Do you have a source more authoritative to refute it?


So you contend that we are in debt because we didn’t do what Jimmy Carter proposed with his energy bill? Medicare and Social Security were obviously neutral factors in your model.

No, I claimed we are more in debt because Reagan dismantled Carter's energy programs, and that's just in the area of energy. I won't even get into here the other areas where he increased our national debt.
 
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I have found compact fluorescent do not last longer.
I would love to see some actual studies of this (or maybe Consumer Reports has done something on it). It's certainly been my experience that compact fluorescents don't last nearly as long as advertised, but I would probably say that about most light bulbs -- the absolute worst being incandescent "decorative globes" that go into bathroom fixtures.

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Well here you go:
" The life of a CFL is significantly shorter if it is turned on and off frequently. In the case of a 5-minute on/off cycle the lifespan of a CFL can be reduced to "close to that of incandescent light bulbs".[14] The US Energy Star program suggests that fluorescent lamps be left on when leaving a room for less than 15 minutes to mitigate this problem."
 
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How many lights do you think people burn at once. The heat does not cause that much more heat to cause the temp to increase in the whole house. It is about the extra energy used because it produces the heat.

This is more government control because people never make the right decisions only the government knows best. So much for capitalism and product choices.
Given that Calfornia is requiring that people use halogen incandescents in lieu of the standard variety - there's not going to be a lot of energy savings due to heat. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if 72 watt halogens produce MORE heat than standard 100 watt bulbs.
 
The only thing that bugs me about CFL's is that some of them have to warm up for several minutes before you get full lighting.
I'm bothered by the cost and the quality of the light. Fluorescents produce much better light than they used to, but it's still nowhere as nice as a standard incandescent or halogen bulb.

I tend to put them in closets, pantries and hallways where I really don't care about the quality of the light. Combine that with what I just posted off of wikipedia, and that explains why I'm so underwhelmed by their lifespan -- I tend to use them only in places where I switch lights on and off in under 5 minutes. I have no need to light my closet or pantry for 15 minutes, hence no need for an expensive, low quality bulb. I'm at a loss now as to where it makes sense to use them - perhaps hallways and maybe fixtures that I know are prone to spike (for this purpose CFLs have been wonderful).
 
Let's bring GE back by increasing corporate taxes if they don't make the bulbs the govt wants. :rolleyes:

Why don't we increase corporate taxes on companies who send jobs overseas? That might actually work to keep manufacturing jobs in the U.S.
 
Doesn't this fall under the umbrella of interstate commerce?

Isn't that something that the federal government should regulate, as per the Constitution?

Why are people getting outraged over this?
 
Doesn't this fall under the umbrella of interstate commerce?

Isn't that something that the federal government should regulate, as per the Constitution?

Why are people getting outraged over this?

Because gosh darn it, where does it end? Shucks, it's 100 watt lightbulbs today, it's who I can marry next... Whoops!
 
I've not endorsed or even mentioned ethanol. However, while I agree that food based ethanol is a non-starter, non-food based ethanol still has promise, particularly with algae. This was but one of the energy options explored by the R&D funding. The referenced report was by the Rocky Mountain Institute. Do you have a source more authoritative to refute it?




No, I claimed we are more in debt because Reagan dismantled Carter's energy programs, and that's just in the area of energy. I won't even get into here the other areas where he increased our national debt.

Water is needed to produce any kind of ethanol. I think the only thing worse than turning our food supply into our fuel supply, would be turning our water supply into our fuel supply. Imagine the blow back, if water became a traded commodity, like grain.
 
Water is needed to produce any kind of ethanol. I think the only thing worse than turning our food supply into our fuel supply, would be turning our water supply into our fuel supply. Imagine the blow back, if water became a traded commodity, like grain.

Water is needed to produce most things... including gasoline production.
 
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