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Gay Republican Group Prompts Split Among Conservatives

Your Star said:
This is really great news for LGBT rights, because if both parties are on board, then there is nothing left to stop equality from happening.
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If by "equality" do you mean the democrats simply continue using identity politics to reward "favored interest groups" for their monies and support? Just what does this have to do with the conservative concept of not using government monies and legislation to reward these self-same groups?
 
Jetboogieman said:
I think it honestly depends on WHY one does not support SSM, not simply that they don't.

I know for you it's about protecting the sanctity of marriage, and the definition of the word, but honestly, nationally, that's not what this is about.

If it was that simple, then why not have a Federal Law permitting civil unions?

And if it should be down to the states, how come the Hawaiian governor vetoed a bill that would have granted civil unions?

Hawaiian governor vetoes civil unions bill | The Upshot Yahoo! News

Honestly, let it go. It's a word, and what marriage means to the Christian church, should not mean what marriage means to a neutral, and secular government.

Whatever ones feelings are around this subject, and I Know for some it can get quite dogmatic, swallow your pride, and lets let our gay brothers and sisters, who mean us no harm at all, become as miserable as the rest of us. Why should members of the same sex, have any less right to marry if they're in love, then a scummy straight couple that married for money?

Ideally speaking of course, religious dogma should not be used to deny people rights, DOMA Is a good example of this. There's no logical reason to deny gay people the right to marry, swallow your pride, and out dated definitions, change comes, don't get left behind.

That's the word, I stick to it.

Jetboogieman.
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Your argument is simply the same argument put forward by american liberals/leftists for decades. It was/is simply a continuation of the democratic party's attempts to justify continuing identity politics to reward those groups for their support and monies. Just how is it acceptable for a conservative party to engage in democratic party politics? Why is that? If gays want to support a small agenda government why do we have to change several thousands of years of our culture just to "buy their votes." Becoming democrats won't help this country or traditional american culture and it's concept of smaller less dangerous government as opposed to those americans who want to "ape" european socialist democracies.
 
Redress said:
I asked a question MrV. I showed you their website and asked where other than gay issues they where anything but normal republicans. That is not making any implications, that is asking a rather simple question.
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What's teh code for SPIN again?



Then why didn't you say that?




Redress said:
Calling some one dishonest, no that is not namecalling...
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I didn't call you dishonest. I said you were BEING dishonest. That's not name calling, if it were, you'd have put on the mod hat and infracted me. But you know I did not step over that line, you're just trying to make it SEEM like I did. Nice try though.




Redress said:
It's not my place to tell republicans what they should or should not do with their party. I also not calling any one a bigot. I asked a simple question.
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Post #71, you even quote the dictionary....
 
Redress said:
You might have noticed that the link I provided had results from hundreds of polls. There is both a clear trend in those polls, and they do not agree with your comment I referred to. Now are you suggesting that all those polls where manipulated?
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Just a side note, while I agree the polls are very telling to people waking up and becoming real americans which is great it doesnt matter much. Even if the polls were all against gays and gay marriage when it comes to civil rights and discrimination history has proved it doesnt matter.

90% of the country could be against it and if a supreme judge rules its discrimination thats that, whats fair wins.
 
It all started at last year's 2010 CPAC convention, when the National Organization for Marriage (NOM) booth was just twenty feet from GOProud's booth. Words were definitely exchanged.

“… [W]e have a message for GOProud on marriage: If you try to elect pro-gay-marriage Republicans, we will Dede Scozzafava them.” — news release, National Organization for Marriage (NOM), (Wikipedia link added by me, to assist those who so quickly forgot who Dede Scozzafava is.)​


Immediately after the 2010 mid-terms, GOProud and the Tea Party Movementarians were warning the GOP leadership to stay focused on economic issues and limited government and not misinterpret the election results as an endorsement of the agendas of other segments of the conservative coalition.

“We urge you to stay focused on the issues that got you and your colleagues elected and to resist the urge to run down any social issue rabbit holes in order to appease the special interests.” — letter, Christopher R Barron, Chairman of the Board, GOProud, and, Andrew Ian Dodge, Coordinator, Maine Tea Party Patriots​

I bet that didn't go over well at some of the social conservative (i.e., ‘special interests’) organizations' headquarters.
 
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Redress said:
You might have noticed that the link I provided had results from hundreds of polls. There is both a clear trend in those polls, and they do not agree with your comment I referred to. Now are you suggesting that all those polls where manipulated?
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Believe the polls you want. The elections prove otherwise. ANd you didnt answer why so many blacks and hispanics are such bigots, yet are so frequesntly courted and welcomed by the democrat party. Bigots indeed!
 
Dutch said:
Your argument is simply the same argument put forward by american liberals/leftists for decades. It was/is simply a continuation of the democratic party's attempts to justify continuing identity politics to reward those groups for their support and monies. Just how is it acceptable for a conservative party to engage in democratic party politics? Why is that? If gays want to support a small agenda government why do we have to change several thousands of years of our culture just to "buy their votes." Becoming democrats won't help this country or traditional american culture and it's concept of smaller less dangerous government as opposed to those americans who want to "ape" european socialist democracies.
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Ah. I have no interest in rewarding anyone for being who they are.

Simply giving what is deserved.

If you can tell me one good reason why gays shouldn't be allowed to marry, or serve in the military, I may agree with you. But they cause no harm to anyone, they are decent, law abiding people just like the rest of us.
 
I think it is most interesting that those that are more, to left around here are the most supportive of GOP Proud.
 
Jetboogieman said:
Ah. I have no interest in rewarding anyone for being who they are.

Simply giving what is deserved.

If you can tell me one good reason why gays shouldn't be allowed to marry, or serve in the military, I may agree with you. But they cause no harm to anyone, they are decent, law abiding people just like the rest of us.
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there isn't one so you'll be waiting a long time
just look at this thread, all were debunked and others were clearly non-sense

it was two threads actually one was shut down cause it reached the 2000 post mark.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/78677-gay-marriage-right-stop-part-ii.html

either way there are none
 
VanceMack said:
Huh...shocking. And overwhelming support by Hispanics too. Well...you know the democrat party has long been a home to bigots and racists and homophobes...
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not shocking to me, religious extremists exists on all sides and they typically vote more than objective, younger, more open people no matter what party people identify with.
 
Centrist77 said:
not shocking to me, religious extremists exists on all sides and they typically vote more than objective, younger, more open people no matter what party people identify with.
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Right...it has to be religous extremists...it cant just be people that believe men with men is 'wrong'...
 
VanceMack said:
Right...it has to be religous extremists...it cant just be people that believe men with men is 'wrong'...
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Im sorry did I say they ALL were? nope, thats right I didnt LMAO nice jump though
If you read the link you will see the majority identified themselves as religious so YES religion played a role and lead the charge to discriminate. Thanks

"Religious groups led the tightly organized campaign for the measure, and religious voters were decisive in getting it passed. Of the seven in 10 voters who described themselves as Christian, two-thirds backed the initiative."


also those people dont matter when it comes to discrimination they are wrong.
 
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The Prof said:
holder's homies are fundamentalist?
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what are you talking about? im just posting what the link said, is there something specific you want to ask me, explain it?

my stance is religion (doesnt matter who you are, lefty, right, independant, black, white etc) plays a large and majority role in discriminating against gays.

is something else on your mind?
 
The Prof said:
the doj disagrees
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they have a right to but there are none, they have all been debunked

the DOJ probably thought there was good reasons not to treat women and minorities equal at one time too so?
 
Centrist77 said:
the DOJ probably thought there was good reasons not to treat women and minorities equal at one time too so?
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not obama's doj

And yet — sorry, the contradictions keep coming — once Obama was elected, and once a gay couple in California had sued to overturn DOMA, his Administration not only defended the law, but defended it in a legal argument so reactionary that it would embarrass Dick Cheney (who, incidentally, is to the left of Obama on marriage). In that argument — here's a PDF courtesy of Georgetown professor Nan Hunter — Obama's lawyers noted that "courts have widely held that certain marriages performed elsewhere need not be given effect, because they conflicted with ... public policy." The examples the Justice Department offered: "marriage of uncle to niece," "marriage of 16-year-old," "marriage of first cousins."
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Why Does Obama Keep Flip-Flopping on Gay Marriage? - TIME

sorry
 
The Prof said:
not obama's doj
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again your point?
whats that have to do with the point "I" made and "MY" stance
thats right, still nothing
 
MrVicchio said:
What's teh code for SPIN again?



Then why didn't you say that?
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Because I did not know. You said they where not in line with the mainstream of republicans on social issues, but did not specify what issues. I asked for clarification because, looking at their website(I had not been before, so went out of curiosity and what I saw looked, to me, like mainstream republicans, except gay.


I didn't call you dishonest. I said you were BEING dishonest. That's not name calling, if it were, you'd have put on the mod hat and infracted me. But you know I did not step over that line, you're just trying to make it SEEM like I did. Nice try though.
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Um...:spin::rofl

Post #71, you even quote the dictionary....
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You might want to read what I was responding to.
 
Centrist77 said:
Just a side note, while I agree the polls are very telling to people waking up and becoming real americans which is great it doesnt matter much. Even if the polls were all against gays and gay marriage when it comes to civil rights and discrimination history has proved it doesnt matter.

90% of the country could be against it and if a supreme judge rules its discrimination thats that, whats fair wins.
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I don't argue this point, but it is getting off topic. I linked the polls to show attitudes about gays in general, not gay marriage or whether it should be allowed.
 
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