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Thread: For many, Jesus isn't the reason for the season

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    For many, Jesus isn't the reason for the season

    Survey: For many, Jesus isn't the reason for the season - USATODAY.com
    "A lot of Americans celebrate Christmas like they participate in yoga: unaware and unconcerned about its religious roots," says Ed Stetzer, LifeWay president and a Southern Baptist pastor.

    ...more people encourage belief in Santa Claus (38%) than tell the Gospel story (28%) that undergirds the whole of Christianity," Stetzer says.

    Many Millennials, ages 18 to 29, have switched the lights off on the Nativity scene. More than half (56%) say their Christmas is "primarily" religious; three in four (74%) told LifeWay many of the things they enjoy this season "have nothing to do with the birth of Jesus."

    "Christmas for them is just something you do because you're an American these days," says Drew Dyck, 33, who works in church ministry for Christianity Today International. He tracked Millennials in his new book, Generation Ex-Christian.
    Quite a few posters here have suggested that the celebration of Christmas is far less religious than it used to be (and that many non-believers celebrate it without caring that it's about Jesus Christ). This study confirms that.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 12-27-10 at 12:28 PM.

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    Re: For many, Jesus isn't the reason for the season

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Survey: For many, Jesus isn't the reason for the season - USATODAY.com


    Quite a few posters here have suggested that the celebration of Christmas is far less religious than it used to be (and that many non-believers celebrate it without caring that it's about Jesus Christ). This study confirms that.
    I would hope that those conclusions are fairly obvious to most. Christmas is slowly but surely slipping away entirely from being a religious holiday. The number of Santas and Christmas trees and reindeer and even penguins (I don't know why penguins were so popular on my street this year...) in yards in my neighborhood this christmas dwarfs nativity scenes or crosses or anything religious in nature.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

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    Re: For many, Jesus isn't the reason for the season

    It's a shame that my religion's holiday has been hijacked by commercialism.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
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    Re: For many, Jesus isn't the reason for the season

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    It's a shame that my religion's holiday has been hijacked by commercialism.
    Everything has been hijacked by commercialism. Me and my wife just spent almost a year and lots of money planning out a wedding that neither of us remember much of. Looking back (much of this I argued before hand but her family was fixated on a "traditional"wedding) we could go back and cut costs nearly in half. The fresh flowers were pretty but nowhere near necessary, we didn't need limos for a twenty minute ride, it was ridiculous to rent a church for one hour for 2000 dollars. That's right people. Two months of mortgage payments equals one hour in a church, lol. TV and wedding guides tell you that you must spend money beaucoup on a wedding and people listen. The same with engagement rings. Guys are now expected to save up months of paychecks on a ring that has a clear shiny jewel that isn't even that rare in it? For what purpose? I knew my wife was the one when we went shopping for engagement rings and the one she fell in love with cost 5000 and I told her I couldn't afford it and we continued shopping. She honestly didn't care what I spent on a ring and she could care less how much it cost, she just wanted something from me that looked good on her finger. Of course I got her the 5000 ring cause she loved it and I could afford it but it's great being married to someone that isn't obsessed with having expensive stuff for the sake of it being expensive.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

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    Re: For many, Jesus isn't the reason for the season

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    It's a shame that my religion's holiday has been hijacked by commercialism.
    Your religion hijacked my people's holiday a thousand years ago, so color me unsympathetic. Where do you think the Christmas trees you so enjoy came from?

    http://www.religioustolerance.org/xmas_tree.htm

    Pagan traditions: Many Pagan cultures used to cut boughs of evergreen trees in December, move them into the home or temple, and decorate them. 7 Modern-day Pagans still do. This was to recognize the winter solstice -- the time of the year that had the shortest daylight hours, and longest night of the year. This occurs annually sometime between DEC-20 to 23; most often, it is DEC-21. As the solstice approached, they noticed that the days were gradually getting shorter; many feared that the sun would eventually disappear forever, and everyone would freeze. But, even though deciduous trees, bushes, and crops died or hibernated for the winter, the evergreen trees remained green. They seemed to have magical powers that enabled them to withstand the rigors of winter.

    "The first decorating of an evergreen tree began with the heathen Greeks and their worship of their god Adonia, who allegedly was brought back to life by the serpent Aessulapius after having been slain." 5

    The ancient Pagan Romans decorated their "trees with bits of metal and replicas of their god, Bacchus [a fertility god]. They also placed 12 candles on the tree in honor of their sun god" 2 Their mid-winter festival of Saturnalia started on DEC-17 and often lasted until a few days after the Solstice.

    In Northern Europe, the ancient Germanic people tied fruit and attached candles to evergreen tree branches, in honor of their god Woden. Trees were viewed as symbolizing eternal life. This is the deity after which Wednesday was named. The trees joined holly, mistletoe, the wassail bowl and the Yule log as symbols of the season. All predated Christianity. 5
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 12-27-10 at 01:21 PM.

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    Re: For many, Jesus isn't the reason for the season

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Your religion hijacked my people's holiday a thousand years ago, so color me unsympathetic. Where do you think the Christmas trees you so enjoy came from?
    Forgive the Christians for celebrating our Saviors birth on a pagan holiday. We didn't hijack it, we decided to celebrate on the same day.

    Also, there are conflicting histories regarding the Christmas tree. The Christmas Archives
    hy do we have a decorated Christmas Tree? In the 7th century a monk from Crediton, Devonshire, went to Germany to teach the Word of God. He did many good works there, and spent much time in Thuringia, an area which was to become the cradle of the Christmas Decoration Industry.

    Legend has it that he used the triangular shape of the Fir Tree to describe the Holy Trinity of God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The converted people began to revere the Fir tree as God's Tree, as they had previously revered the Oak. By the 12th century it was being hung, upside-down, from ceilings at Christmastime in Central Europe, as a symbol of Christianity.

    The first decorated tree was at Riga in Latvia, in 1510. In the early 16th century, Martin Luther is said to have decorated a small Christmas Tree with candles, to show his children how the stars twinkled through the dark night.
    And also from wikipedia http://Origin<br /> The origin of th...as Day.&#91;3]
    Origin
    The origin of the Christmas tree is obscured by uncertainties of oral histories of pre-literate European and Asian cultures. For example, according to Christian lore, the Christmas tree is associated with St. Boniface and the German town of Geismar. Sometime in St. Boniface's lifetime (c. 672-754) he cut down the tree of Thor in order to disprove the legitimacy of the Norse gods to the local German tribe. St. Boniface saw a fir tree growing in the roots of the old oak.
    The custom of erecting a Christmas Tree can be historically traced to 15th century Livonia (present-day Estonia and Latvia) and 16th century Northern Germany. According to the first documented uses of a Christmas tree in Estonia, in 1441, 1442, and 1514 the Brotherhood of Blackheads erected a tree for the holidays in their brotherhood house in Reval (now Tallinn). At the last night of the celebrations leading up to the holidays, the tree was taken to the Town Hall Square where the members of the brotherhood danced around it.[4] In 1584, the pastor and chronicler Balthasar Russow wrote of an established tradition of setting up a decorated spruce at the market square where the young men “went with a flock of maidens and women, first sang and danced there and then set the tree aflame”.[2] In that period, the guilds started erecting Christmas trees in front of their guildhalls: Ingeborg Weber-Kellermann (Marburg professor of European ethnology) found a Bremen guild chronicle of 1570 which reports how a small tree was decorated with "apples, nuts, dates, pretzels and paper flowers" and erected in the guild-house, for the benefit of the guild members' children, who collected the dainties on Christmas Day.[3]
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    Re: For many, Jesus isn't the reason for the season

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Forgive the Christians for celebrating our Saviors birth on a pagan holiday. We didn't hijack it, we decided to celebrate on the same day.
    That's not hijacking to you?

    Also, there are conflicting histories regarding the Christmas tree. The Christmas Archives
    Yeah. Evergreens weren't used by pagans.

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    Re: For many, Jesus isn't the reason for the season

    Digs, Christmas is celebrated on the 25 because the church wanted to have the pagan holiday of Yule absorbed into Christmas, so that people would become members of the church. That is fact.
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    Re: For many, Jesus isn't the reason for the season

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Survey: For many, Jesus isn't the reason for the season - USATODAY.com


    Quite a few posters here have suggested that the celebration of Christmas is far less religious than it used to be (and that many non-believers celebrate it without caring that it's about Jesus Christ). This study confirms that.
    well anybody denying that was just silly, it was common sense, nor does it really matter, however you, me or whoever celebrates it is what it means to them and thats all that matters
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    Re: For many, Jesus isn't the reason for the season

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Digs, Christmas is celebrated on the 25 because the church wanted to have the pagan holiday of Yule absorbed into Christmas, so that people would become members of the church. That is fact.
    Maybe so. However the initial Catholic church also absorbed pagan priests and priestesses into their order when it became the state religion. Many say the Catholic worship of Mary and prayer to saints stems from wanting to make pagans who worship goddesses and many spirits feeling comfortable in the new state religion. It can be argued that placing Christmas on the 25th in order to absorb pagans isn't really Christian as much as it was the state religion wanting everyone to conform. I believe the ills of the early Catholic church are not Christian, but rather Catholic and do not reflect my views or my faith.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
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