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Thread: Obama Signs Bill To Extend Bush Tax Cuts

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    Re: Obama Signs Bill To Extend Bush Tax Cuts

    haymarket;1059174840]from Conservative



    Because they were temporary.
    Yes, because that is the only way they could get passed. Democrats controlled the process.


    Yes.
    Doesn't appear to be the case because the issue is Federal Income taxes and what they fund.


    Obama STILL SAYS that tax cuts on the rich are bad. He admits that the Republicans held the rest of the 98% of the nation hostage and they only way he could get the tax reduction for the rest was to give it to the top 2% also. He came right out and said he did not agree with that aspect of the bill but was a realist.
    Yet, Obama said the extension of the tax cuts were good for ALL Americans. You really buy the political rhetoric, don't you? For years we heard the Bush tax cuts were for the rich so where did the Middle Class tax cuts come in? I didn't think the Middle Class got a tax cut according to the media and the left. Now all of a sudden they are being held hostage?

    Social Security, among other things.
    Right, SS and Medicare, so isn't that 2% a cut in money going to fund future requirements of individuals? Why are you supporting cutting SS and Medicare?


    Nothing according to the President.
    And you believe it? As you stated FICA funds SS so if you cut the tax funding SS aren't you cutting SS? See how foolish liberals are?

    Did I miss the part where you posted your academic credentials as an expert on those who teach government in public schools?
    I never claimed to teach civics, you did? Looks to me like those that you taught wasted their time in your class. Here is what income taxes fund. Anything to cut here?

    Expenses in billions

    Expenses

    Defense 696.1
    International Affairs 45.2
    Gen. Science, Space 30.9
    Energy 11.5
    Natural resources/env 41.6
    Agriculture 23.2
    Commerce -82.9
    Transportation 92.5
    Community Dev 24.5
    Education/Train/Social 125.1
    Health 369
    Income Security 624
    Veterans Benefits 108.4
    Justice 55.2
    General Govt. 18.1
    Net Interest 196.9

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    Re: Obama Signs Bill To Extend Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    No, I have a realistic view of capitalism and free enterprise. I have not ever said that poor people cannot become rich or that a person is not responsible for how high they go. But even the people that work under Bill Gates is not as rich as Bill Gates...they are still poorer than him. The whole system is a pyramid. If you take out one part then you no longer have a pyramid.
    Do you live in this country? Please name for me a successful socialist country anywhere in the world where there is successful wealth redistribution? Your problem is you cannot accept the fact that there is plenty of room at the top along with Bill Gates. Our economy isn't a zero sum game where someone benefits at the expense of another. There are a lot of Bill Gates today thanks to Bill Gates. Find that in any other country?

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    Re: Obama Signs Bill To Extend Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Do you live in this country? Please name for me a successful socialist country anywhere in the world where there is successful wealth redistribution? Your problem is you cannot accept the fact that there is plenty of room at the top along with Bill Gates. Our economy isn't a zero sum game where someone benefits at the expense of another. There are a lot of Bill Gates today thanks to Bill Gates. Find that in any other country?
    Umm...are you really trying to deny that our whole system isn't based off of a pyramid? I tell you what, explain to me what would happen if EVERYONE had the same exact dollar amount. What would happen if everyone was rich? Of course you would have to assume that such a scenario were even possible to begin with. And while you are at it please explain to me how I have claimed to want this country to be socialist.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Obama Signs Bill To Extend Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Umm...are you really trying to deny that our whole system isn't based off of a pyramid? I tell you what, explain to me what would happen if EVERYONE had the same exact dollar amount. What would happen if everyone was rich? Of course you would have to assume that such a scenario were even possible to begin with. And while you are at it please explain to me how I have claimed to want this country to be socialist.
    I have no problem with everyone being rich and rich is a relative term. Does it really matter that Bill Gates may or may not have more money than Warren Buffet or any of the Walton's? You don't seem to get it, there is room at the top and the rich don't get rich off the backs of someone else. You pick and choose where you spend your money and there isn't anything other than your own issues that prevent you from becoming one of those rich people that you now seem to hate.

    What do you call it when one calls for redistribution of wealth or penalizing the rich?

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    Re: Obama Signs Bill To Extend Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I have no problem with everyone being rich and rich is a relative term. Does it really matter that Bill Gates may or may not have more money than Warren Buffet or any of the Walton's? You don't seem to get it, there is room at the top and the rich don't get rich off the backs of someone else. You pick and choose where you spend your money and there isn't anything other than your own issues that prevent you from becoming one of those rich people that you now seem to hate.

    What do you call it when one calls for redistribution of wealth or penalizing the rich?
    No, you are not getting it. What would happen if EVERYONE had the same exact dollar amount. What would happen if everyone was rich?
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Obama Signs Bill To Extend Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    No, you are not getting it. What would happen if EVERYONE had the same exact dollar amount. What would happen if everyone was rich?
    In a 14.5 trillion dollar diverse economy that is absolutely impossible and to assume everyone would have the same would be a wild assumption that everyone had the same aptitude, drive, creativity, and initiative which is what liberals want everyone to believe.

    How many rich liberals give away their income? Most want forced redistribution through the govt.

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    Re: Obama Signs Bill To Extend Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    In a 14.5 trillion dollar diverse economy that is absolutely impossible and to assume everyone would have the same would be a wild assumption that everyone had the same aptitude, drive, creativity, and initiative which is what liberals want everyone to believe.

    How many rich liberals give away their income? Most want forced redistribution through the govt.
    No it would not be impossible. If everyone had the same amount of money as Bill Gates then why would anyone work for anyone else? What you don't understand is that we are argueing for the same thing, I'm just trying to get you to understand that without the poor there would be no rich. As such all this hostility towards the poor is highly misplaced. Helping the poor, helps the rich.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Obama Signs Bill To Extend Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    No it would not be impossible. If everyone had the same amount of money as Bill Gates then why would anyone work for anyone else? What you don't understand is that we are argueing for the same thing, I'm just trying to get you to understand that without the poor there would be no rich. As such all this hostility towards the poor is highly misplaced. Helping the poor, helps the rich.
    You and I apparently have a different definition of poor. There are very few reasons for someone to be poor and I assure you that those without serious health problems have nothing to do with the rich keeping them poor. Not everyone wants to be like Bill Gates and that is what makes this country great. This country guarentees equal opportunity NOT equal outcome. If the progressives want equal outcome then share their wealth with everyone else instead of using govt. force to do it.

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    Re: Obama Signs Bill To Extend Bush Tax Cuts

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    This country guarentees equal opportunity NOT equal outcome.
    Specifically how does that work?
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    Re: Obama Signs Bill To Extend Bush Tax Cuts

    I think I understand both sides of the Bush tax cuts debate.

    For the wealthy -

    They took a product or service, cultivated it into a business of some sort, ultimately employeed a number of people to replicate that product or service concept and pay employee salaries to do so. The government comes along, levies an assortment of taxes on the business, as well as the individual earnings. The business owner determines he's paying alot in taxes, the bulk of which he believes are being "wasted" on social programs, i.e., food stamps. So, the businessman "lobbies" his state Congressman/Senator to have his tax liabilities reduced. Congress then makes the wealthy business owner a deal, "If you do certain things to improve workplace safety, take steps to improve and/or protect the environment but most of all make financial contributions to charitable organizations that help the poor either in your community or nationally, we'll change the tax code to reduce your tax liability. In some instances if you contribute enough towards these charities and other such entities your contributions may be so great you won't have to pay any taxes and instead receive a tax refund from the government." The business owner likes this idea because it allows him to keep "more of what he earns" while not having his tax dollars go to social programs (whether or not he believes these programs are, in fact, wasteful).

    For the poor/middle-class -

    We're told that tax cuts to the wealthy will have a positive impact on our way of lives, that tax cuts will create jobs. How? Wealthy individuals will take their profits and reinvest them into their business by either: a) improving a product or service; b) paying higher salaries; c) purchasing better equipment which will both help improve the quality of the product or service, as well as help other businesses improve their profitability; d) expand their business by either increasing the size of their facility or purchasing/building additional facilities which in either case would require hiring more employees.

    Judging from the state of the economy today, the latter is what the poor/middle-class are complaining about. Instead of businesses "reinvesting" either in their business or their employees, what we're seeing is that wealthy individuals have done more to increase their personal earnings and truly keep "more of what they earn". The "arrangement" - tax cuts that benefit the wealthiest among us who would in turn create or improve opportunities for the working class - has not "trickled down" to those at the bottom. So, what we're seeing in today's economic landscape is those at the bottom saying loudly, "We're been dupped!!" Tickle-down economic has not work. If it had unemployment wouldn't be so high and we wouldn't be in a recession.

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