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Thread: Obama Signs Bill To Extend Bush Tax Cuts

  1. #191
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    Re: Obama Signs Bill To Extend Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    this thread is about Federal Income taxes, say it over and over again and maybe it will stick. 53% of the INCOME EARNERS are paying for the rest of the population including the 47% of income earners that pay nothing. The fact that you are giving the govt. an interest free loan without any outrage is quite tellling. Glad you support the flat tax but then how does the flat tax affect you other than make you pay what you tell me you cannot afford?

    You and others ought to be very concerned about the size of this govt. and why it is so big thus requiring more income taxes on that 53%?
    You know what? I'm done. I've explained it to you over and over in lots of different ways. Other people have explained it to you over and over in different ways. You are not ever going to understand or be honest enough (which ever has to be applicable) to admit that your narrow view is not sufficent enough to portray the reality of things.

    My suggestion to everyone else...stop responding to this thread. Let it die out as both Conservative and Turtledude are not interested in accepting anything that is not within thier narrow viewpoint.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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  2. #192
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    Re: Obama Signs Bill To Extend Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You really have a distorted view as to the role of the Federal Govt. in a free enterprise, capitalistic economy. It isn't the role of the govt. to create jobs, guarantee salaries, and expand. That is the role of the private sector which Obama doesn't understand nor do his supporters.

    You also have a distorted view of the Obama tax cuts. How are they helping you today? Looks to me like you aren't employed because you have no idea. Those were rebate checks, not ongoing tax cuts. Once they were spent they were gone. No withholding cuts at all which would have meant more take home pay on EACH paycheck.
    First off, I do work in state government. Before that I spent 16 yrs on active duty serving for and defending the very government you denounce. So, let's not make this personal and stick with the issues at hand.

    Second, the Obama tax cuts in the stimulus were not tax credits, i.e., stimulus checks, ala the Bush stimulus. They were direct tax reductions to our income tax which reduced our tax witholdings and did put more money in everyone's paycheck. From the NYTimes:

    ...the stimulus bill had cut taxes for 95 percent of working families by changing withholding rates...

    In a troubling sign for Democrats as they head into the midterm elections, their signature tax cut of the past two years, which decreased income taxes by up to $400 a year for individuals and $800 for married couples, has gone largely unnoticed.

    In a New York Times/CBS News Poll last month, fewer than one in 10 respondents knew that the Obama administration had lowered taxes for most Americans. Half of those polled said they thought that their taxes had stayed the same, a third thought that their taxes had gone up, and about a tenth said they did not know. As Thom Tillis, a Republican state representative, put it as the dinner wound down here, “This was the tax cut that fell in the woods — nobody heard it.”

    Actually, the tax cut was, by design, hard to notice. Faced with evidence that people were more likely to save than spend the tax rebate checks they received during the Bush administration, the Obama administration decided to take a different tack: it arranged for less tax money to be withheld from people’s paychecks.
    So why didin't people notice the slight increase in their take-home pay? "It's the economy, stuipd!"

    There are plenty of explanations as to why many taxpayers did not feel richer when the cuts kicked in, giving typical families an extra $65 a month. Some people were making less money to begin with, as businesses cut back. Others saw their take-home pay shrink as the amounts deducted for health insurance rose.

    And taxpayers in more than 30 states saw their state taxes rise, according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities.
    Just so you know, $400 divided by 52 weeks (assuming many wage earners are paid on a weekly basis) = $7.69/wk

    That's just over the cost of a Big Mac combo meal, enough to buy lunch. Not complaining, just trying to illustrate a point.

    You seem to have a problem with people keeping more of what they earn. It is THEIR money first.
    Right on time with that same, tired line. I stated earlier I have no problem with high wage earners keeping more of their money. My argument has never been about that. It's been, "Did the Bush tax cuts work as promised for lower wage earners or did they not?"

    Conclusion based on the evidence: No, they did not.

    Your position is very obvious: If you make tons of money, you should be able to keep more of it. How that tax disparity affects those at the bottom is of no consequence. For some, it doesn't matter that the promise of a "helping hand from above (higher wage earners, i.e., business owners/investors)" didn't truly aid those at the bottom. Sure, tax cuts for the working poor/middle-class did provide some additional money in our paychecks, but that does little when the cost of living increases yet our wages have either remained flat or that many people haven't seen a pay raise in years! Therefore, the only way many of us have seen an increase in our networth has been through tax cuts.

    So, while I'm appreciative that the working poor/middle-class were considered in tax cut proposals, what disappoints me to the extreme is our Republican/Conservative government has continued to propetuate that lie that tax cuts that benefit the wealthiest among us is far more effective for the overall economy and the nation and yet each time this tactic has been tried the result has been the rich have gotten richer and the poor have gotten poorer. It would be one thing if the middle-class had expanded as well as the upper income brackets because atleast then we'd be able to see the evidence that people from the bottom have migrated economically to the middle or the top, but that's not what has happened over the last 10-20 years. Unfortunately, folks who believe as you do will never admit that trickle-down economics just have not worked as outlined.

    And with that, I'm out....
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 12-23-10 at 03:50 PM.

  3. #193
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    Re: Obama Signs Bill To Extend Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    You know what? I'm done. I've explained it to you over and over in lots of different ways. Other people have explained it to you over and over in different ways. You are not ever going to understand or be honest enough (which ever has to be applicable) to admit that your narrow view is not sufficent enough to portray the reality of things.

    My suggestion to everyone else...stop responding to this thread. Let it die out as both Conservative and Turtledude are not interested in accepting anything that is not within thier narrow viewpoint.
    Right, that normally happens when people cannot defend their position and want to expand it beyond the thread topic. This isn't about your finances, this is about the size of the FEDERAL GOVT. and how it is funded. Throwing in your individual income demand does nothing to address this thread topic. You and others believe your state and local responsibilities trump the Federal Responsibility.

    There is no question that state and local taxes affect your spendable income so what is the answer? Obama signed the tax law which kept the Bush era tax rates so that working people still have more take home pay because of lower taxes. Some here trying to justify 47% of the people not paying any Federal Income taxes based upon state and local taxes is nothing more than a strawman. Sorry your state and local taxes are so high but that has nothing to do with Federal Taxes. Again, here are the items those taxes fund. The answer is cutting spending, collecting taxes on the 47% that don't pay any taxes, or continuing to raise taxes on those who pay the lion's share now. Too many want to pass that liability on to the upper income individuals which doesn't solve the real problem, which is the size of the govt.

    Sorry you are taking this personally because that was never the intent. My attempt was to try and get people to understand the size of the Federal Govt, the amount collected and from whom. Still that doesn't resonate with some.

  4. #194
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    Re: Obama Signs Bill To Extend Bush Tax Cuts

    Objective Voice;1059176834]First off, I do work in state government. Before that I spent 16 yrs on active duty serving for and defending the very government you denounce. So, let's not make this personal and stick with the issues at hand.
    Pure BS, I served in the military, had three family members in the military that served in Iraq, had a Father at Pearl Harbor, and a Father in Law that liberated France, thus I do not denounce this govt. only the liberals that run it and have created the entitlement mentality that you are now supporting.

    Second, the Obama tax cuts in the stimulus were not tax credits, i.e., stimulus checks, ala the Bush stimulus. They were direct tax reductions to our income tax which reduced our tax witholdings and did put more money in everyone's paycheck. From the NYTimes:
    That is bs as well, the Obama tax cuts did nothing to withholding, Bush tax cuts actually reduced withholding. You better stop reading the NY Times and actually get the facts from that govt. that you are defending. You got a rebate check from obama but your withholding didn't change.

    So why didin't people notice the slight increase in their take-home pay? "It's the economy, stuipd!"

    Just so you know, $400 divided by 52 weeks (assuming many wage earners are paid on a weekly basis) = $7.69/wk
    Better think about it, $400 isn't a rate cut, it is a rebate. Get it yet?


    Right on time with that same, tired line. I stated earlier I have no problem with high wage earners keeping more of their money. My argument has never been about that. It's been, "Did the Bush tax cuts work as promised for lower wage earners or did they not?"

    Conclusion based on the evidence: No, they did not.

    That is your opinion, are you sending your tax cut back from each paycheck? You think it is the government's role to tell private business what to pay its workers? whether or not you got a pay increase doesn't change the fact that your take home pay went up and is still up 7 years later. Guess working for the State has blurred your understanding as to the role of the govt. on personal income issues.

  5. #195
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    Re: Obama Signs Bill To Extend Bush Tax Cuts

    Conservative

    After exchanging pretty much the same ideas back and forth many times now it is obvious that we simply see things very differently.
    A very Merry Christmas to you down there in Texas.
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  6. #196
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    Re: Obama Signs Bill To Extend Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Conservative

    After exchanging pretty much the same ideas back and forth many times now it is obvious that we simply see things very differently.
    A very Merry Christmas to you down there in Texas.
    Thank you very much, same to you and your family!

  7. #197
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    Re: Obama Signs Bill To Extend Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    A better question is why are you diverting from the thread topic and ignoring Federal Income taxes data? How does any agency calculate how much sales taxe, excise taxes, or other use taxes that you pay in a year? Very easy to do with Federal Income taxes.
    He is diverting because he has to try to convince the weakminded that somehow 1 percent of the population paying 40% of the income tax and ALL the death tax is not enough



  8. #198
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    Re: Obama Signs Bill To Extend Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Since people have been talking about percentages in this thread I figured it was time to bring in the worlds 3rd richest man. Yeah, rich folks may pay more income tax than joe blow down the street. But that is only because he/she has more money. But on a percentage base rich people pay less. Don't believe me then here's Warren Buffet.

    That crap has been debunked dozens of times. Buffett manipulates his salary and other compensation to create as much income as possible as dividend income or capital gains income which is taxed at 15% (after corporate taxes) and 20% respectively, and minimizes his salary (only 100K which is at least one twentieth to one hundredth of what similar executives get in salary) which is taxed at 35%. HIs salary income is still taxed at a higher rate than his secretaries and he pays millions more than she does for the same governmental services.

    He is dishonest and only dupes use his transparent nonsense as an argument



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    Re: Obama Signs Bill To Extend Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    it's pretty sad when a person thinks someone with your income should be paying taxes.
    ITs sad that he thinks I should pay more in taxes to make up for his lack of effort. why do I have a duty to keep paying more to make up for someone like him? what do I get from the government that he doesn't get even though I pay more in taxes a month than his family makes? It is not my fault he isn't productive



  10. #200
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    Re: Obama Signs Bill To Extend Bush Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    ITs sad that he thinks I should pay more in taxes to make up for his lack of effort. why do I have a duty to keep paying more to make up for someone like him? what do I get from the government that he doesn't get even though I pay more in taxes a month than his family makes? It is not my fault he isn't productive
    We would all be more productive if we shrunk the size of the Federal Government, which is the real culprit, yet the dems always want to make it about how the pie is split creating class warefare.
    Caitlyn Strong...

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