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Thread: PolitiFact's Lie of the Year: 'A government takeover of health care'

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    Re: PolitiFact's Lie of the Year: 'A government takeover of health care'

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    What does that have to do with the healthcare debate. No one has to fly United. Tell those people who lost their doctors and plan because the healthcare bill caused them to drop patients?
    Apparently you missed the entire point. Regulation is not a takeover. The doctors aren't going to be on a government payroll, the health insurance companies are not being nationalized. In fact, we're funneling billions of taxpayer dollars into the hands of private insurance companies via subsidies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: PolitiFact's Lie of the Year: 'A government takeover of health care'

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Apparently you missed the entire point. Regulation is not a takeover. The doctors aren't going to be on a government payroll, the health insurance companies are not being nationalized. In fact, we're funneling billions of taxpayer dollars into the hands of private insurance companies via subsidies.
    This is more that govt. regulation, it is a govt. mandate. It is you that doesn't get it.

    What you don't seem to understand is this is the first step towards a single payer system as people are going to be screaming for govt. help when doctors drop patients and healthcare companies raise premiums to their policy holders.
    Last edited by Conservative; 12-17-10 at 04:12 PM.

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    Re: PolitiFact's Lie of the Year: 'A government takeover of health care'

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I gave you a couple as did a few other posters. I don't believe that Palin's is a lie because no one knows what is going to happen 4 years from now. If it isn't a govt. takeover why is the govt. fighting the lawsuits so vigorously?
    Not a single one close to being as large a lie. Sorry.

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    Re: PolitiFact's Lie of the Year: 'A government takeover of health care'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not a single one close to being as large a lie. Sorry.
    So you have personally unanimously voted this as the lie of the year, not surprising. Something that doesn't go into effect for 4 years cannot be called a lie now except in the leftwing world.

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    Re: PolitiFact's Lie of the Year: 'A government takeover of health care'

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Um, that's sort of the exact opposite of what I said.

    I'll be fair though, apparently it was voted by the readers, so it has more to do with the bias of people who go there than the bias of the website itself. Still, looking at a list of the "Lies of the Year", every single one of the top 4 are by Republicans, as are the majority of them in general; and beyond that, as I just explained, #1 shouldn't even qualify since it's not so much a complete blatant lie as it is a stretch of the truth, or simply a belief/prediction of what's to come.



    Something that is actually, undeniably an outright lie. Like Alan Grayson's "Taliban Dan" ad, though preferably one that had a bigger impact.

    With the one that they chose, the reasons they gave in the article for it being a "lie" was that it simply doesn't match with the words in the bill. That's also what they said about Sarah Palin's "death panels" comment, which made #1 last year. Both times, though, they looked at it the wrong way, since the two statements aren't about what's literally set forth in the bill, but about what will actually happen once the law takes effect.
    That was such a big fat lie, even some liberals were disgusted by it., and he got his butt kicked in the election.
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    Re: PolitiFact's Lie of the Year: 'A government takeover of health care'

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    This is more that govt. regulation, it is a govt. mandate. It is you that doesn't get it.

    What you don't seem to understand is this is the first step towards a single payer system as people are going to be screaming for govt. help when doctors drop patients and healthcare companies raise premiums to their policy holders.
    Mandates are still not a takeover, which is where that whole lie part comes in.

    Maybe possible future takeover is a guess, not a takeover. With the largest Democratic majority in a long time, we couldn't even get a public option, much less single-payer. You're paranoid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: PolitiFact's Lie of the Year: 'A government takeover of health care'

    Federal requirement for purchasing health insurance is not a regulation, it's a takeover of the freedom of choosing to purchase or not purchase health insurance.

    It's also significant regulation in the private industry which can be termed "takeover" if you want to be dramatic.
    When a company buys another, it's a takeover, yet they may leave much of the structure, employees, etc., in place. Shareholders still get their cut, former empoyees of the "taken over" company may still get their cut, and may still hold some power. ? They may just impose new requirements and reporting structure, etc. No different really than significant government involvement in the health insurance industry. So...why act like the word "takeover" is so black and white, only when it is convenient for politifact

    Let's be clear, between medicaid, medicare, other miscellaneous federal health insurance benefits (some for kids I think) and now the new healthcare bill.....people, if you don't think this is massive government involvement in the health care industry you're just full of ****. It's been taken over for years, this is just another step towards more invasive federal control of it.

    I can't believe that qualified as the worst lie, what a crock. I applaud the effort of checking political facts, I despise the fact that apparently it's just another interpretation war with the thin veneer of "well um, we're the fact checkers, it's a fact!"
    Last edited by Mach; 12-17-10 at 04:50 PM.

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    Re: PolitiFact's Lie of the Year: 'A government takeover of health care'

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Of course you wouldn't but the fact remains you cannot keep a plan that no longer exists and the Obama administration lied by never addressing that issue. I like the Obama Administration lie that passing the stimulus would keep unemployment capped at 8%? Or the lie that the stimulus plan saved or created millions of jobs when the reality is there is no evidence of that. Or the Obama lie that "I inherited a 1.3 trillion deficit from Bush. Deficits are yearly and fiscal year 2009 ended in Sept. 2009 so Obama had 9 months of that fiscal year and lied about what he inherited.

    I agree, Polifact is nothing more than a leftwing mouthpiece embraced by other leftwingers.
    There's a difference between portraying a statement as an absolute versus making a statement one hopes or believes will produce a certain outcome. Since President Obama came into office, there have been an variety of falsehoods thrown out there concerning not only himself but many aspects of his Administration, his policies and perceived results of legislation signed during his brief tenure. From the Right, making statements that come across as absolute fact, such as "death panels", free access to health care for illegal aliens other than via ER visits, free health care credits to illegal aliens, a government takeover of health care as opposed to a government mandate that all citizens must have health insurance or establishing a commission panel to review and/or recommend best health care standards and practises (something that's already taking place via the Department of Health and Human Services and has since its inception), or that the President will cost the taxpayers $200 billion per day during a trip to India...

    Over exaggeration or outright lies?

    I'll give you the 8 percent unemployment; he shouldn't have made that assurance. However, I wouldn't call that a lie because no one not even the President could guarantee that the unemployment rate would have remained low. As to President Obama's claim that he inheriting a budget deficit in excess of $1.3 trillion...

    From Wikipedia:

    The annual budget deficit is the difference between actual cash collections and budgeted spending (a partial measure of total spending) during a given fiscal year, which runs from October 1 to September 30. The U.S. Federal Government collected $2.52 trillion in FY2008, while budgeted spending was $2.98 trillion, generating a total deficit of $455 billion.
    So from Oct 01, 2007 - Sep 30, 2008, the deficit was $455 billion. What happened after Oct 01, 2008...

    However, during FY2008 the national debt increased by $1,017 billion, much more than the $455 billion deficit figure.
    Knowing that TARP was enacted in October of 2008 carrying additional expenditures of atleast $800 billion into FY2009, I'd have to say the President's claim is true here (or damned close to it). Job creation under the Stimulus, these figures have been batted around alot since March 2009 and with so many variables to counting "real private-sector" job creation versus "rehiring, temp jobs or government/contract" jobs, I don't think there's any real way to verify the accuracy or inaccuracy of this claim. So, for this reason I'd say it was false. But everything else, it really depends on which side of the partisan divide you're on. Although I'm more liberal leaning, I try to present from a more moderate/centrist position. From my perspective, the issues presented by PoliticFact as to who told the biggest lie(s) seem to be very accurate. In short, Republicans told the biggest whoopers of 2010.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 12-17-10 at 05:45 PM.

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    Re: PolitiFact's Lie of the Year: 'A government takeover of health care'

    Objective Voice;1059165699]There's a difference between portraying a statement as an absolute versus making a state one hopes will produce a certain outcome. Since President Obama came into office, there have been a pletra of falsehood thrown out there concerning himself but many aspects of his Administration, his policies and perceived results of legislation signed during his brief tenure. From the Right, making statements that come across as absolute fact, such as "death panels", free access health care to illegal aliens other than ER visits, free health care credits to illegal aliens, a government takeover of health care as opposed to a government mandate that all citizen must have health insurance or establishing a commission panel to review and/or recommend best health care standards and practises (something that's already taking place via the Department of Health and Human Services and has since its inception), or that the President will cost the taxpayers $200 billion per day during a trip to India...
    Do you know how much the India trip cost? Those so called falsehoods have never been addressed or refuted with hard facts. Still waiting for them. As for the healthcare program no one knows what is going to happen four years from now so we don't know if there will be death panels although rationing is already being proposed in some areas and being discussed. My point is the Palin comments aren't a proven lie because the program hasn't gone into effect.
    Over aggageration or outright lies?

    I'll give you the 8 percent unemployment; he shouldn't have made that assurance. However, I wouldn't call that a lie because no one not even the President could guarantee that the unemployment rate would have remained low. As to President Obama's claim that he inheriting a budget deficit in excess of $1.3 trillion...

    From Wikipedia:



    So from Oct 01, 2007 - Sep 30, 2008, the deficit was $455 billion. What happened after Oct 01, 2008...
    What is missing here again is the difference between debt and deficit.

    Knowing that TARP was enacted in October of 2008 carrying additional expenditures of atleast $800 billion into FY2009, I'd have to say the President's claim is true here (or damned close to it). Job creation under the Stimulus, these figures have been batted around alot since March 2009 and with so many variables to counting "real private-sector" job creation versus "rehiring, temp jobs or government/contract" jobs, I don't think there's any real way to verify the accuracy or inaccuracy of this claim. So, for this reason I'd say it was false. But everything else, it really depends on which side of the partisan divide you're on. Although I'm more liberal leaning, I try to present from a more moderate/centrist position. From my perspective, the issues presented by PoliticFact as to who told the biggest lie(s) seem to be very accurate. In short, Republicans told the biggest whoopers of 2010.
    TARP was passed and signed in October 2008. Bush spent 350 billion of it and left 350 billion to Obama. Most of TARP has been repaid and should have gone against the 2009 deficit but didn't. So if TARP was repaid how can Bush be responsible for the deficit caused by TARP which was actually the 350 billion he spent? Bush had nothing to do with the GM/Chrysler takeover or the 842 billion stimulus both of which added to the 2009 deficit. The point is there is no way that Obama could have inherited a 1.3 trillion dollar deficit for four months of fiscal year 2009 but that message resonated with the left.

    I don't buy the statement that the Republicans told the biggest whoppers of 2010 not with this Administration and Pelosi/Reid in charge of Congress. Polifact is presenting a leftwing spin that leftwingers buy. IMO Obama and the Democrat Congresses had the biggest lies of 2010 and the electorate agreed with me.

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    Re: PolitiFact's Lie of the Year: 'A government takeover of health care'

    Can we PLEASE forget about the ****ing India trip? It's a non-issue people. Every President has travelled, and trips cost money. The insane figure floated around was exactly that... insane. Geeze.

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