Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 63

Thread: The Espionage Act And WikiLeaks - Would it End Journalism As We Know It?

  1. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Redneck Riviera
    Last Seen
    07-09-11 @ 06:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,728

    Re: The Espionage Act And WikiLeaks - Would it End Journalism As We Know It?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Sure, there's a need for publishing SOME secrets: in order to expose wrongdoing or potential wrongdoing. But that isn't what Assange has done, he's just dumped the documents into the public and let the chips fall where they may. That isn't appropriate, and if we need to rewrite the Espionage Act to draw that distinction more clearly, we should.
    I actually prefer what Assange has done to a press that cowers in fear of being charged with espionage for outing governmental wrongdoing. The latter is MUCH MORE DANGEROUS than Assange could ever be.

    Y'all do love your bogeymen, though, don't you? First, Americans cowered in fear from an Afghani sheep herder, now they cower in fear from a white-haired former hacker.

    We're turning into goddamn France, y'all.

  2. #12
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: The Espionage Act And WikiLeaks - Would it End Journalism As We Know It?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I actually prefer what Assange has done to a press that cowers in fear of being charged with espionage for outing governmental wrongdoing. The latter is MUCH MORE DANGEROUS than Assange could ever be.
    Well, then why not rewrite the law to clarify the distinction between outing government wrongdoing and outing state secrets just for the hell of it? That would solve that problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux
    Y'all do love your bogeymen, though, don't you? First, Americans cowered in fear from an Afghani sheep herder, now they cower in fear from a white-haired former hacker.

    We're turning into goddamn France, y'all.
    What
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  3. #13
    Sage
    PeteEU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Denmark
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:13 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,089

    Re: The Espionage Act And WikiLeaks - Would it End Journalism As We Know It?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Well, then why not rewrite the law to clarify the distinction between outing government wrongdoing and outing state secrets just for the hell of it? That would solve that problem.
    Will never ever happen. The Espionage act (and similar laws world wide) are meant to be as they are, so governments can charge anyone they want when some information is leaked or stolen. Remember, any information within government can be labelled as secret or similar.. Bush was king of doing that... and once done, then anyone leaking the information can be charged with spying. In principle, a list over the presidents toilet visits could be labelled as secret and if leaked then said leaker's could be executed for treason.

    Basically it is a government "get revenge" card for exposing their wrong doings.
    PeteEU

  4. #14
    Hot Flash Mama
    Summerwind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Last Seen
    01-23-17 @ 05:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    11,010

    Re: The Espionage Act And WikiLeaks - Would it End Journalism As We Know It?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The major distinction I would draw between Assange and a government whistleblower is that the whistleblower leaks information to expose wrongdoing, which is completely legitimate in my view. Assange leaks state secrets just for the hell of it...I mean, is the world really a better place because everyone knows that US diplomats in Turkey don't like Tayyip Erdogan? That's just embarrassing to everyone involved and doesn't do anything to advance any specific policy. I don't see how society benefits from most of this stuff; there was very little in the way of actual wrongdoing that was exposed. If the worst thing that Assange has on the State Department in 300,000 documents is that US spies tried to steal Ban Ki-Moon's credit cards, I think the US government actually comes across looking great.

    Maybe the distinction between whistleblowing and random leaking needs to be codified into law, if it isn't already. Perhaps the Espionage Act could be modified to protect people who publicize secret information who are motivated by a desire to expose wrongdoing or potential wrongdoing, while still prosecuting douchebags like Assange who do it for personal fame/glory/vendettas.
    You have a point. On the other hand if Wikileaks (I refuse to reduce the entire org to one person) released only what they thought was exposing wrongdoing, we'd be hearing that the releases were intentionally skewed to only show certain things. I think the fact that they are letting the journalists decide what's important and what needs redacting and such, actually adds a level of credibility to the issue. Yes, all the cables are available, but very few of GQPublic are reading those, most are just reading what's being written in publications.

    I think no matter what they/he did, all or selected, would be criticised. Seems at the time the Pentagon Papers release and that journalist were just as demonized when those first came out, now he's a hero of sorts. Much of the embarrassing stuff is silly I agree, on the other hand, it does show a lack of maturity that is discouraging at such high levels in the government among people making national security and military intervention decisions.
    jallman: "It's all good. At least you have a thick skin and can take being poked fun back at without crying. "

  5. #15
    Global Moderator
    The Truth is out there.
    Kal'Stang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry ID USA
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,858
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: The Espionage Act And WikiLeaks - Would it End Journalism As We Know It?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Well, then why not rewrite the law to clarify the distinction between outing government wrongdoing and outing state secrets just for the hell of it? That would solve that problem.
    And this would be just like curtailing freedom of speech. Imagine someone saying the "N" word "just for the hell of it" and then being able to charge that person with a capitol crime. Is what the person said bad? Yep. Should he be punished for it? Nope. Because once you start curtailing freedoms you open the door for even more to happen....all in the name of "doing what you think is right". Remember, our Constitution favors individual rights...not majority "rights".
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  6. #16
    Hot Flash Mama
    Summerwind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Last Seen
    01-23-17 @ 05:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    11,010

    Re: The Espionage Act And WikiLeaks - Would it End Journalism As We Know It?



    Tried to embed the video, but it didn't work. It's a Fox clip.

    Well, now the NYTs should be investigated per Liebermann. I wish I could say, "unbelievable" but the outcry since Assange mentioned that some of soon to be released cables are relating to the bank debacle, seems everyone in Washington is actively trying to shut down all sources, even established media outlets. Will he recommend Fox and MSNBC and ABC and CBS and NBC be investigated as well?
    Last edited by Summerwind; 12-09-10 at 09:02 AM.
    jallman: "It's all good. At least you have a thick skin and can take being poked fun back at without crying. "

  7. #17
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,969

    Re: The Espionage Act And WikiLeaks - Would it End Journalism As We Know It?

    I have no issue with The Press or other entities republishing information exposed in accordance with the Whistleblower Protection Act. In those cases, the leaked information is legally being leaked and thus to me you're not trading on essentially stolen goods.

    However, when its not something that would fall under that then I think there's a legitimate discussion to be had...akin to talking about slander, libel, or shouting fire in a crowded theater...about the limits of free speech and the press when it comes to profiting off of illegal material.

  8. #18
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Redneck Riviera
    Last Seen
    07-09-11 @ 06:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,728

    Re: The Espionage Act And WikiLeaks - Would it End Journalism As We Know It?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I have no issue with The Press or other entities republishing information exposed in accordance with the Whistleblower Protection Act. In those cases, the leaked information is legally being leaked and thus to me you're not trading on essentially stolen goods.
    That fails to take into consideration that what's occurred with wikileaks is, in many ways, very similar to what happened with the Pentagon Papers. Someone who is a whistleblower is taking a serious personal risk, ON EVERY LEVEL, especially if the wrongdoing they are exposing is severe. Why shouldn't that be allowed in anonymity?

    However, when its not something that would fall under that then I think there's a legitimate discussion to be had...akin to talking about slander, libel, or shouting fire in a crowded theater...about the limits of free speech and the press when it comes to profiting off of illegal material.
    Who decides when something meets the standard you've set for leaked information, and when it doesn't?

    Maybe the real issue is that we should stop keeping so many secrets, and reserve top secret classification for those secrets that REALLY warrant it, but never without actual oversight by elected officials.

  9. #19
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Redneck Riviera
    Last Seen
    07-09-11 @ 06:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,728

    Re: The Espionage Act And WikiLeaks - Would it End Journalism As We Know It?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Remember, any information within government can be labelled as secret or similar.
    This is exactly right.

    It's funny how many posters don't trust the government with an x-ray image of their naked body, but they DO trust the government in areas which are much more serious in regards to their impact on human rights.

    I'd like a libertarian to explain that dichotomy...Why do you assume that the government is in the right here?

  10. #20
    Sage
    PeteEU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Denmark
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:13 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,089

    Re: The Espionage Act And WikiLeaks - Would it End Journalism As We Know It?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    This is exactly right.

    It's funny how many posters don't trust the government with an x-ray image of their naked body, but they DO trust the government in areas which are much more serious in regards to their impact on human rights.
    Nationalism at its worse.. some non American is being painted as the bad guy so it is the patriotic thing to rally behind the government to defend it regardless of the crap that comes out.. typical right wing.. it happened daily under Bush.

    I'd like a libertarian to explain that dichotomy...Why do you assume that the government is in the right here?
    Assange is a foreigner, a socialist (has to be since he hates America according to the US right), terrorist (because Fox News and the GOP say so) and of course did not use a condom during sex. Ironically, by defending the government against this guy and making this guy the "bad guy".. they go off script because they are defending Obama ... talk about catch 22!
    PeteEU

Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •