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Thread: Two Major Conservative Obstacles Emerge To Tax Cut Compromise

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    Re: Two Major Conservative Obstacles Emerge To Tax Cut Compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I do not for two reasons. One is my concept of fairness which is objectivist. The second is the fact that a progressive tax system ultimately will collapse
    My concept of fairness is based on outcomes, not on superficial intermediates. The damage caused by a 5% increase in tax for example, has a significantly higher cost for those who are already spending most of their income, and can barely get by paying their bills, than it does for the mega-rich, whom will see a number in a savings account drop a few digits. Assets have diminishing returns. A 5% increase in income after tax for someone say.... living on under a dollar a day could be the difference between feeding your children or not. A 5% increase in income for someone in the lower class in the United States could mean the difference between being able to pay the bills or not. A 5% increase in income for someone in the middle class could mean the difference between sending your 5 kids through college or not. A 5% difference in income after tax for someone earning a 1 million+ salary could be the difference between a Ferrari and a Porsche. Thus, I consider a 5% tax increase for those earning 1 million+ a near insignificant deduction, while a 5% tax increase for the lower class a devastating blow, and support a progressive tax system.

    A long, long time ago they had a flat tax system in Athens. They would kick those out who couldn't pay the tax. Eventually they changed to a progressive tax system. The progressive tax system is taking it's damn time collapsing.

  2. #152
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    Re: Two Major Conservative Obstacles Emerge To Tax Cut Compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    The pseudo-intellectual liberals who make up the majority of the left on this board have a stock reply that the rich should just bend over and take it. However, reality suggests that rich people tend to leave when they are gouged too much which is why Sweden's famous tennis stars of the 70s and 80s all lived in Monte Carlo as did some of the German pros like Boris Becker. I know, personally, 5 millionaires who have established residences in places such as the Turks and Cacos or Grand Cayman to prevent the death tax from raping their estates. Now some of the less thoughtful libs will say "good riddance" but as this happens more and more the amount of net tax payers decrease which will cause the parasite mindset to demand others who remain pay more and more


    it is a system that cannot continue to exist for long

    As an example, I retired because the taxes including state and Federal, even as they stand now not profitable enough. I may do some consulting if I get bored done the line. And yes, I would have no problem moving if the tax situation became untenable.

  3. #153
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    Re: Two Major Conservative Obstacles Emerge To Tax Cut Compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by SirPwn4lot View Post
    My concept of fairness is based on outcomes, not on superficial intermediates. The damage caused by a 5% increase in tax for example, has a significantly higher cost for those who are already spending most of their income, and can barely get by paying their bills, than it does for the mega-rich, whom will see a number in a savings account drop a few digits. Assets have diminishing returns. A 5% increase in income after tax for someone say.... living on under a dollar a day could be the difference between feeding your children or not. A 5% increase in income for someone in the lower class in the United States could mean the difference between being able to pay the bills or not. A 5% increase in income for someone in the middle class could mean the difference between sending your 5 kids through college or not. A 5% difference in income after tax for someone earning a 1 million+ salary could be the difference between a Ferrari and a Porsche. Thus, I consider a 5% tax increase for those earning 1 million+ a near insignificant deduction, while a 5% tax increase for the lower class a devastating blow, and support a progressive tax system.

    A long, long time ago they had a flat tax system in Athens. They would kick those out who couldn't pay the tax. Eventually they changed to a progressive tax system. The progressive tax system is taking it's damn time collapsing.
    There are a lot of problems with the current tax system. If the income tax was more broad based, then it would be easier to sell a more progressive tax. The burden of paying for the government needs to be shared my essentially all citizens.

    My sense is that you give away the moral grounds to ask higher income folks to pay more when you are unwilling to ask many to pay anything.

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    Re: Two Major Conservative Obstacles Emerge To Tax Cut Compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by SirPwn4lot View Post
    My concept of fairness is based on outcomes, not on superficial intermediates. The damage caused by a 5% increase in tax for example, has a significantly higher cost for those who are already spending most of their income, and can barely get by paying their bills, than it does for the mega-rich, whom will see a number in a savings account drop a few digits. Assets have diminishing returns. A 5% increase in income after tax for someone say.... living on under a dollar a day could be the difference between feeding your children or not. A 5% increase in income for someone in the lower class in the United States could mean the difference between being able to pay the bills or not. A 5% increase in income for someone in the middle class could mean the difference between sending your 5 kids through college or not. A 5% difference in income after tax for someone earning a 1 million+ salary could be the difference between a Ferrari and a Porsche. Thus, I consider a 5% tax increase for those earning 1 million+ a near insignificant deduction, while a 5% tax increase for the lower class a devastating blow, and support a progressive tax system.

    A long, long time ago they had a flat tax system in Athens. They would kick those out who couldn't pay the tax. Eventually they changed to a progressive tax system. The progressive tax system is taking it's damn time collapsing.
    you ignore the problems of telling a majority of people-in order to get their votes-that everything they want will be paid for by the "rich" and the majority have no duty to object to the spending used to buy their votes



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    Re: Two Major Conservative Obstacles Emerge To Tax Cut Compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    The pseudo-intellectual liberals who make up the majority of the left on this board have a stock reply that the rich should just bend over and take it. However, reality suggests that rich people tend to leave when they are gouged too much which is why Sweden's famous tennis stars of the 70s and 80s all lived in Monte Carlo as did some of the German pros like Boris Becker. I know, personally, 5 millionaires who have established residences in places such as the Turks and Cacos or Grand Cayman to prevent the death tax from raping their estates. Now some of the less thoughtful libs will say "good riddance" but as this happens more and more the amount of net tax payers decrease which will cause the parasite mindset to demand others who remain pay more and more


    it is a system that cannot continue to exist for long
    Sooo... The Clinton tax structure raped millionaires? Because this pseudo-intellectual clap-trap from a small number of conservatives is not based in fact or numbers of any sort. Quite the opposite. 2% of the population still unsatisfied with ruling the roost for the past 35 years is a guarantee that this system cannot exist for too long. You won't even pay for the cuts - or the wars that increased your wealth. The ones the 2% never fight themselves.

    Reagan tax cuts: Recession and banking crisis. Massive debt.
    Bush tax cuts: Recession and banking crisis. Massive debt.

    If you guys were so brilliant, why are we in this mess? The economy should have been zooming right along and middle class incomes would not have dropped $2500.00 or so over eight years. 800,000 private sector jobs would not have been lost over that same 8 years. You something for nothing folks, however, did fine, didn't ya? Your incomes grew exponentially. So please spare the sob story. 2% is making policy for the 98%. That's not any way to run a country, Mussolini.

    As for tennis stars, lmao. More of those high job creation income levels,

    Geez, if you have an estate worth over $10 million (married, $5 million single) and you can't protect it, you need a new accountant. Besides, Obama gave you exactly what you wanted. What's the problem? The fact it came from Obama?
    I've always felt that a person's intelligence is directly reflected by the number of conflicting points of view he can entertain simultaneously on the same topic. - Abigail Adams

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    Re: Two Major Conservative Obstacles Emerge To Tax Cut Compromise

    your understanding of cause and effect is as pathetic as your hatred of the rich. What I want is

    1) no income or estate taxes

    2) courts that actually take the tenth amendment seriously



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    Re: Two Major Conservative Obstacles Emerge To Tax Cut Compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you ignore the problems of telling a majority of people-in order to get their votes-that everything they want will be paid for by the "rich" and the majority have no duty to object to the spending used to buy their votes
    Thing is, the left has never said that. The right just says they do and it becomes the rule of thumb, for some reason.
    I've always felt that a person's intelligence is directly reflected by the number of conflicting points of view he can entertain simultaneously on the same topic. - Abigail Adams

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    Re: Two Major Conservative Obstacles Emerge To Tax Cut Compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    your understanding of cause and effect is as pathetic as your hatred of the rich. What I want is

    1) no income or estate taxes

    2) courts that actually take the tenth amendment seriously
    So... You want what benefits you? I think far-right conservatives should be given everything they want. Then I'll place bets on how long it takes before they realize they didn't really want it.
    I've always felt that a person's intelligence is directly reflected by the number of conflicting points of view he can entertain simultaneously on the same topic. - Abigail Adams

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    Re: Two Major Conservative Obstacles Emerge To Tax Cut Compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Kev316 View Post
    Thing is, the left has never said that. The right just says they do and it becomes the rule of thumb, for some reason.
    That is rather dishonest. that is what the progressive income tax is combined with the dem talking points that the taxes on the rich need to go up



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    Re: Two Major Conservative Obstacles Emerge To Tax Cut Compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Kev316 View Post
    So... You want what benefits you? I think far-right conservatives should be given everything they want. Then I'll place bets on how long it takes before they realize they didn't really want it.
    see, I noted in another post that the socialist left is going to spew "far-right" or "radical right".

    I want to be not saddled with having to care for people like you



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