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Two Major Conservative Obstacles Emerge To Tax Cut Compromise

How do YOU define "far right"

A majority completely defenseless to the tools of persuasion, ruled by a minority that wields these tools with great skill. And Turtledude.
 
And still econonomic inequality grows each year. Make no mistake the middle class in this country is a product of forced redistribution of wealth, hence the name New Deal. The briefest perusal of the conservative blogosphere reveals they've been bitching about this since it's passage. But all the "meme-tenders"
on the conservative side of forums skip the middle class in their diatribes, to avoid alienating middle class republicans and independants. The middle class is being liquidated, nothing.more, nothing less. And let's stop allowing the right to use the "productive" rich/parasitic poor meme unchallenged. The majority of the money being extracted in this country produces nothing of value, it's just manipulative speculation, computerized micro-transactions etc.. I have the links at home, so manufacture your responses accordingly, and prepare to have them deconstructed by persuasion techniques used. Oh and I live in southern California, where the "sleep tax" paid to landlords starts at about $1000/month. And save the"poor landlords" nonsense. If there was "anywhere" to sleep without paying said tax those arguments might have relevance. There is not so they do not.

Do you have a solution to the problem? What I find interesting is the continued confusion between Federal Income taxes and use taxes imposed by the state and federal govt. I lived in a high tax state in my early years and got fed up with it an moved. That is taking personal responsibility instead of whining.
 
Do you have a solution to the problem? What I find interesting is the continued confusion between Federal Income taxes and use taxes imposed by the state and federal govt. I lived in a high tax state in my early years and got fed up with it an moved. That is taking personal responsibility instead of whining.

People live where they do for a variety of reasons including job, family and comfort level. Taxes, I would guess are down the list for most persons after those factors.
 
what is really causing a bad situation to perhaps happen is so many people think the government exists to take care of them and other people have a duty to pay for that

So the rich are planning to riot?
 
People live where they do for a variety of reasons including job, family and comfort level. Taxes, I would guess are down the list for most persons after those factors.

If you choose to live in a high tax state because of the reasons you state then don't whine about the high taxes, high unemployment, and poorer economic conditions.
 
he's to busy bitching.

That is what members of the left do, bitch and complain but never offer solutions. They do know that if they offer the solutions that they really want that those solutions would be rejected completely. Right now the majority in this country want the Bush era tax rates extended but that doesn't fit into the liberal agenda. Nor does it fit into their agenda to point out the actual taxes paid by income class that show that the top income earners pay by far the largest percentage of the taxes. That is confirmed by the IRS but the left ignores that preferring instead to spout rhetoric promoting class warfare. I will continue to post this until it is recognized.

Regarding the tax proposal in Congress:

There are no Tax cuts here, the discussion is about extending the current RATES or RATE HIKES.

Regarding taxes paid:

The top 1% of wage earners make 20% of all income and pay 38% of all taxes.
The top 5% of wage earners make 34.7% of all income and pay 58.7% of all taxes.
The top 10% of wage earners make 45.8% of all income and pay 69.9% of all taxes.

The bottom 50% make 12.8% of all income and pay 2.7% of all taxes.

Currently approximately 47% of all Americans pay nothing and actually get money back making their tax rate negative.

Source - IRS published figures.
 
Do you have a solution to the problem? What I find interesting is the continued confusion between Federal Income taxes and use taxes imposed by the state and federal govt. I lived in a high tax state in my early years and got fed up with it an moved. That is taking personal responsibility instead of whining.

Congratulations! You missed the whole point! What would I suggest? Return to the tax and economic policies in place from WW2 'til Reagan, where everybody was moving forward at about the same pace. Instead of the upper percentiles rocketing ahead while everyone else stagnates. Also desensitize the general population to the tools and techniques of persuasion used to propagandize them by challenging the use of the tools themselves. For example: ignoring the point and changing the subject in an attempt to divert the discussion, as in your "reply". Would you like to try again?
 
Congratulations! You missed the whole point! What would I suggest? Return to the tax and economic policies in place from WW2 'til Reagan, where everybody was moving forward at about the same pace. Instead of the upper percentiles rocketing ahead while everyone else stagnates. Also desensitize the general population to the tools and techniques of persuasion used to propagandize them by challenging the use of the tools themselves. For example: ignoring the point and changing the subject in an attempt to divert the discussion, as in your "reply". Would you like to try again?

So would you revert to the budget of that era as well? I asked you for a solution to the economic problems we have today and the tax compromise which is the topic of this thread? Every time I post the tax numbers showing that a large percentage of the population doesn't pay any Federal Income tax I get the diversion to local, state, and federal use taxes. Doesn't seem that many on the left understand that those taxes are use taxes and if you don't use the services you don't pay the taxes. I don't see any reason to restate the point again but I do think you need to try and answer the question posed.
 
Congratulations! You missed the whole point! What would I suggest? Return to the tax and economic policies in place from WW2 'til Reagan, where everybody was moving forward at about the same pace. Instead of the upper percentiles rocketing ahead while everyone else stagnates. Also desensitize the general population to the tools and techniques of persuasion used to propagandize them by challenging the use of the tools themselves. For example: ignoring the point and changing the subject in an attempt to divert the discussion, as in your "reply". Would you like to try again?

This pretty much says it all

Just over half responding to survey say they are worse off under Obama | cleveland.com
 
So would you revert to the budget of that era as well? I asked you for a solution to the economic problems we have today and the tax compromise which is the topic of this thread? Every time I post the tax Ynumbers showing that a large percentage of the population doesn't pay any Federal Income tax I get the diversion to local, state, and federal use taxes. Doesn't seem that many on the left understand that those taxes are use taxes and if you don't use the services you don't pay the taxes. I don't see any reason to restate the point again but I do think you need to try and answer the question posed.

Sure, why not, as percentages, not actual numbers. And I was referring to "taxes" imposed by owners/landlords for the "privelege" of living, not govt imposed taxes. It would seem that you agree with me on the propaganda issue, as the "diversions" you speak of are also the result of propagandizing the American people.
 
Sure, why not, as percentages, not actual numbers. And I was referring to "taxes" imposed by owners/landlords for the "privelege" of living, not govt imposed taxes. It would seem that you agree with me on the propaganda issue, as the "diversions" you speak of are also the result of propagandizing the American people.

You have a lot of growing up to do but it all begins with accepting personal responsibility. No one is forcing you to live in a place where owners/landowners impose taxes for the priviledge of living. there are millions of places to live so why pay a landlord for what you feel is outrageous.

Let me give you some historical perspective, in 1965 there were approximately 175 million people and a Federal Budget of around 250 billion dollars. Today there are approximately 310 million people, not quite double and a 3.6 trillion dollar budget or an increase of over 14 times. So what percentae do you want to increase the budget ?
 
You have a lot of growing up to do but it all begins with accepting personal responsibility. No one is forcing you to live in a place where owners/landowners impose taxes for the priviledge of living. there are millions of places to live so why pay a landlord for what you feel is outrageous.

Could you please provide me with this list of millions of free places to sleep? Hell, we could solve the homeless problem today!

Let me give you some historical perspective, in 1965 there were approximately 175 million people and a Federal Budget of around 250 billion dollars. Today there are approximately 310 million people, not quite double and a 3.6 trillion dollar budget or an increase of over 14 times. So what percentae do you want to increase the budget ?

Math iz haaarrd... First adjust for inflation.... Not 14 times anymore izzit?

And I was referring to our philosophy of how the GDP is dispersed as a nation. Can you explain how the middle class would have come to be without all the "entitlements" you go on about? Like the 40 hour workweek and minimum wage laws. Here's a fun question: If there was a New Deal, what exactlywas the Old Deal, hmm?
 
Could you please provide me with this list of millions of free places to sleep? Hell, we could solve the homeless problem today!



Math iz haaarrd... First adjust for inflation.... Not 14 times anymore izzit?

And I was referring to our philosophy of how the GDP is dispersed as a nation. Can you explain how the middle class would have come to be without all the "entitlements" you go on about? Like the 40 hour workweek and minimum wage laws. Here's a fun question: If there was a New Deal, what exactlywas the Old Deal, hmm?

Isn't this country great, you can demonize the greatest economic system in the world and not be prosecuted for it. You really need to get out and travel a little to see what you are missing in other countries.

Not sure where you are going to school but it is quite scary. I worked in the business world for 35 years and succeeded, but then again my attitude was a lot different than yours.

I learned personal responsibility and if I didn't want to pay "taxes" to property owners I found another piece of property that didn't charge those "taxes" and if I didn't like the job I had and since I was looking for a job when I found the one I had for 35 years, I could have found another.

You see, I learned a lot in school and learned a lot on the job. I made myself valuable and thus I went though a lot worse recession than this one along with other recessions and survived them all. How do you think I did that?

The only entitlement I ever expected was being entitled to equal opportunity, the outcome was my responsibility. Today it seems that entitlement mentality is one that you are entitled to healthcare insurance, you are entitled to retirement income, you are entitled to a job, to a house, to low cost schooling among other things. As I was growing up I looked at most of those as my responsibility. Funny how times have changed.
 
Isn't this country great, you can demonize the greatest economic system in the world and not be prosecuted for it. You really need to get out and travel a little to see what you are missing in other countries.

Not sure where you are going to school but it is quite scary. I worked in the business world for 35 years and succeeded, but then again my attitude was a lot different than yours.

I learned personal responsibility and if I didn't want to pay "taxes" to property owners I found another piece of property that didn't charge those "taxes" and if I didn't like the job I had and since I was looking for a job when I found the one I had for 35 years, I could have found another.

You see, I learned a lot in school and learned a lot on the job. I made myself valuable and thus I went though a lot worse recession than this one along with other recessions and survived them all. How do you think I did that?

The only entitlement I ever expected was being entitled to equal opportunity, the outcome was my responsibility. Today it seems that entitlement mentality is one that you are entitled to healthcare insurance, you are entitled to retirement income, you are entitled to a job, to a house, to low cost schooling among other things. As I was growing up I looked at most of those as my responsibility. Funny how times have changed.

Alumni, School of hard knocks. 46 years old. Made my way through every downturn just fine, by being well above average. I just feel for those who aren't quite as tricky as me instead of considering them prey. You must be waiting for instructions on how to deal with the "Privatization of Sleep" concept. Again, where can you sleep in the US without someone paying a landlord? Millions of homeless are literally dying to know.
 
Alumni, School of hard knocks. 46 years old. Made my way through every downturn just fine, by being well above average. I just feel for those who aren't quite as tricky as me instead of considering them prey. You must be waiting for instructions on how to deal with the "Privatization of Sleep" concept. Again, where can you sleep in the US without someone paying a landlord? Millions of homeless are literally dying to know.

Millions of homeless have the same opportunity as you and I have. Many studies have been done and found that most of those homeless are there by choice, not because there aren't other options. There is a lot of drug abuse by the homeless but there are local programs in my community that help those that really want the help. It is all about personal responsibility, one has to want help and seek it vs. being given anything or receiving forced help. That doesn't work at all.

Instead of paying a landlord I prefer home ownership and you even have a choice where to buy thus affecting your property tax rates so not sure where you get the idea that you can sleep without someone paying.

Nothing wrong with being from the school of hard knocks as I prefer street smarts individuals and in fact helped hundreds become better employees and earn more money. I did go to college but learned a lot from by Dad and his own family owned business, tools which I used to be successful for 35 years.
 
Millions of homeless have the same opportunity as you and I have. Many studies have been done and found that most of those homeless are there by choice, not because there aren't other options. There is a lot of drug abuse by the homeless but there are local programs in my community that help those that really want the help. It is all about personal responsibility, one has to want help and seek it vs. being given anything or receiving forced help. That doesn't work at all.

Instead of paying a landlord I prefer home ownership and you even have a choice where to buy thus affecting your property tax rates so not sure where you get the idea that you can sleep without someone paying.

Nothing wrong with being from the school of hard knocks as I prefer street smarts individuals and in fact helped hundreds become better employees and earn more money. I did go to college but learned a lot from by Dad and his own family owned business, tools which I used to be successful for 35 years.

Again, one last time, there is NOWHERE that I know of where it is legal to sleep without someone paying landlords/owners for the privelege. And how do people who can't afford rent buy a home? I was just pointing out that sleep has been privatized. How this impacts our society is far too complex for the discussion area, but a blog post is in the works. I hope to hear your input at that time. I am attempting to address the impact of PR techniques on our national discourse, from BOTH sides, in an effort to foment genuine, open discussion. Nothing personal.:)
 
Again, one last time, there is NOWHERE that I know of where it is legal to sleep without someone paying landlords/owners for the privelege. And how do people who can't afford rent buy a home? I was just pointing out that sleep has been privatized. How this impacts our society is far too complex for the discussion area, but a blog post is in the works. I hope to hear your input at that time. I am attempting to address the impact of PR techniques on our national discourse, from BOTH sides, in an effort to foment genuine, open discussion. Nothing personal.:)

Sounds like a research paper on the way. I live in Houston, TX and we have both a men's and women's shelter for the homeless that is funded by taxpayer dollars here along with contributions from citizens. The homeless have a place to stay and to eat for as long as they need it and the operative word here is need it. Studies have been done as to why there are so many homeless with the underlying issue being drug and alchohol abuse which again are personal responsibility issues.

What many here want to do is broad brush everything, we need a 3.6 trillion dollar budget to take care of those truly in need. That is total and complete bs. Identify the problem and focus on the problem instead of just throwing money at the problem. Millions of Americans can but won't work, they lost their incentive and drive. Millions of other Americans need the help and being the compassionate nation that we are often we get confused and offer help to those who can but don't work.

Trillions and trillions of dollars have been thrown at the problem and still the problem is there and in fact is worse. My solution is tough love to those who can but choose not to work and compassion to the others. The last thing anyone can do is simply throw money at the problem and expect that to solve the problem. When you do that you get what we have today. Your solution?
 
The bill was a massive extension of the Bush tax cuts and a lower estate tax, and in exchange the Democrats got...an extension of unemployment benefits. Whoa. I'm so impressed. What an awesome deal. Yeah, I have no idea why Democrats would be opposed to that. :roll:

It's all a crap shoot. There's no way to know in advance what's good or bad for the country, so take what you get and hold your nose. At least millions of unemployment checks will continue for another year, and that's a big plus for struggling families.

ricksfolly
 
Again, one last time, there is NOWHERE that I know of where it is legal to sleep without someone paying landlords/owners for the privelege

own your own land. best option, really, so long as you don't intend on moving around constantly.

And how do people who can't afford rent buy a home?

i would like to see these people who can't afford rent despite having made good life choices (such as graduating high school, not having children out of wedlock, etc).
 
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