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Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

Patria Antiqua said:
That's true, the world as it is now is one of horrible injustice, perpetuated by the creeps and thieves like you who justify it.

When life is unfair, you revolt against unfair conditions, not just hold your dick complacently.
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Structural unemployment, monopolization, globalization, automation, alienation, exploitation...

As the Terran would say:
 
liblady said:
can you prove a link to validate that? and would you have a person making 25k a year pay the same % as a person making 250k a year, 0r 2.5MM a year?

show me the math.
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It would simply mean that more than just 2% of the wage earners in the country are paying taxes. No need to look at the math to know that that would be, more.
 
it's the democratic congress's own fault. they should have not left the tax issue to the very last moment. if they would have acted at the beginning of year or even last year, i think they would have had a very good chance of only extending the tax cuts for those earning under 250,000 and leaving those for the so-called rich to expire.

the sad thing is the democrats left reid and pelosi in their leadership spots.

mtm1963
 
Patria Antiqua said:
That's true, the world as it is now is one of horrible injustice, perpetuated by the creeps and thieves like you who justify it.

When life is unfair, you revolt against unfair conditions, not just hold your dick complacently.
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How the hell is turtledude a creep or a thieve? In this country, most of the people who have made a large amount of money have worked hard to get to that point. They did not steal from anyone to get there.
 
Patria Antiqua said:
Are you talking about those people who live in cabins and **** in pots? Or are you referring to some other form of self-sufficiency?
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Primarily, yes, but you can have indoor plumbing.
 
Patria Antiqua said:
I have no alternative. I either make myself a serf to a man of capital, or I hold the whip myself. Either way, I am degraded by the system.
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How the hell are you degraded by the system? Get a new employer, get an education, do something, it is not that hard to make a sensible living in one of the worlds richest countries.
 
liblady said:
no, it's not fair. it's fair to ask someone making 25k a year to pay half of their income in taxes? utter bvll****.
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why isn't that fair. If they want to use as much as some guy paying 500K in taxes its only fair that they pay the same percentage

of course under MY definition of fairness if that guy who makes 25K a year uses the same amount of services as I do he ought to pay the same AMOUNT of taxes
 
Patria Antiqua said:
That's true, the world as it is now is one of horrible injustice, perpetuated by the creeps and thieves like you who justify it.

When life is unfair, you revolt against unfair conditions, not just hold your dick complacently.
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What would a revolt accomplish exactly? How would the country look if you succeeded?

I might join you because this country's going to hell. :)
 
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drz-400 said:
How the hell is turtledude a creep or a thieve? In this country, most of the people who have made a large amount of money have worked hard to get to that point. They did not steal from anyone to get there.
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He's certainly a capitalist creep, but the bit about thieves was more directed toward people who have employees who work under them. I don't know if Turtle has employees, but if he is not a thief himself, then he supports thieves.
 
TurtleDude said:
why isn't that fair. If they want to use as much as some guy paying 500K in taxes its only fair that they pay the same percentage

of course under MY definition of fairness if that guy who makes 25K a year uses the same amount of services as I do he ought to pay the same AMOUNT of taxes
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Because taxation is exactly the same as shopping at Costco according to you Turtle. A high school kid taking Government knows more than you do about the purpose of taxation.
 
Patria Antiqua said:
I have no alternative. I either make myself a serf to a man of capital, or I hold the whip myself. Either way, I am degraded by the system.
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Nature holds the whip silly. It's not my fault you have to eat and you were born in the most prosperous free nation in human history. Poor you, degraded by having to "work" for a living. holy crap.

I was not degraded in the least working min wage to help people, and ultimately help society as a whole function, and to help fund my future.

Patria Antiqua said:
He's certainly a capitalist creep, but the bit about thieves was more directed toward people who have employees who work under them. I don't know if Turtle has employees, but if he is not a thief himself, then he supports thieves.
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And what the **** is this? I hired two people today, I'm a thief? I seem to recall that I made a commitment to transfer money from my account, to their account, and that they were quite happy and agreed, I was happy, and the public getting their goods/services was happy. But patria isn't happy :( Aww.

You now label that as theft? But you don't label the government, against my will, forcibly taking my income at whatever level it decides to, theft?

You're doing more to scare me away from liberals than Bush did to scare me away from republicans, how can look at yourself in the mirror spouting this nonsense?
 
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apdst said:
Primarily, yes, but you can have indoor plumbing.
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I see socialism as a more useful way to advance a nation to first world status. Given the choice between living in a stone age society, and living in a modern society, I choose modernity.

Even so, it wouldn't break and reconstruct the system. Rather than exempt myself, I would rather work to create a society that ends the exploitation of those not lucky enough to be a mamber of the ruling class.
 
Patria Antiqua said:
That's correct. Those born without wealth are born in a state of subserviance to those with wealth.

It's all of the tyranny you oppose from government, except that it comes from the ruling elites.
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So, if I want to get a job & earn a living, I am automatcially considered 'subservient' by you?

It must be sad to be you.
 
Patria Antiqua said:
He's certainly a capitalist creep, but the bit about thieves was more directed toward people who have employees who work under them. I don't know if Turtle has employees, but if he is not a thief himself, then he supports thieves.
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That makes absolutely no sense.
 
Patria Antiqua said:
Decades and decades, if history is any indicator.

You can spout all your strawman nonsense about "forcing people to lose," we know why your rhetoric is high on paranoia and low on argumentation. It's because you're afraid that the oppressed worker will revolt against his chains, and you will be expropriated in the process. You don't love liberty; you fear it, because true liberty has men like you in its crosshairs.
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please explain to me how, because I have a job, I am automatically an 'oppressed worker'. I don't 'feel' oppressed. I do a fair days work... receive a fair days compensation. I win... my employer wins.

HOW... am I 'oppressed'?
 
Mach said:
Nature holds the whip silly. It's not my fault you have to eat and you were born in the most prosperous free nation in human history. Poor you, degraded by having to "work" for a living. holy crap.

I was not degraded in the least working min wage to help people, and ultimately help society as a whole function, and to help fund my future.
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It's not the idea of working for a living, it's the relationship between capital and labor.

Barbbtx said:
What would a revolt accomplish exactly? How would the country look if you succeeded?

I might join you because this country's going to hell. :)
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You'd take control of corporations from private owners and turn them over to state control. Factories, office buildings, hotels, everything. You take them, and make them the engines of the country, not just of capitalist barons. You take these businesses, and you make them democratic in nature, rather than having terms dictated to you by those fortunate enough to have capital.

That way, you remove the indignity and serfdom from the necessity of labor, and the profits can be divided in a manner that is more reflective of who does the actual labor.
 
Whovian said:
please explain to me how, because I have a job, I am automatically an 'oppressed worker'. I don't 'feel' oppressed. I do a fair days work... receive a fair days compensation. I win... my employer wins.

HOW... am I 'oppressed'?
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What is your job?
 
Patria Antiqua said:
He's certainly a capitalist creep, but the bit about thieves was more directed toward people who have employees who work under them. I don't know if Turtle has employees, but if he is not a thief himself, then he supports thieves.
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yeah if you give someone a job that they readily accept you are a thief

do you realize how idiotic that sounds.
 
Whovian said:
So, if I want to get a job & earn a living, I am automatcially considered 'subservient' by you?

It must be sad to be you.
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It is sad to be human. That is how the world works, and that is why we must work to change it.

Whovian said:
please explain to me how, because I have a job, I am automatically an 'oppressed worker'. I don't 'feel' oppressed. I do a fair days work... receive a fair days compensation. I win... my employer wins.

HOW... am I 'oppressed'?
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Are you dictated terms by a superior? If so, congratulations. Because you are not a member of the highest stratum of monied interests in this country, you were born into a world where you were forced to work on the terms of those born to the purple.

Unlike them, you are only as free as they will allow. The world is their oyster. They tell you what to do, and to be thankful for the scraps that you receive.
 
TurtleDude said:
yeah if you give someone a job that they readily accept you are a thief

do you realize how idiotic that sounds.
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Listen. I understand what you are arguing but you need to understand far-left axioms before you go bashing Patria. From his logic private ownership is theft. A by product of an economic system and state that perpetuates it. You have no natural claim to ownership of resources, as far as the far-left is concerned.
 
Patria Antiqua said:
The worker is oppressed in this society merely by being a worker. Unless you are born into a particular class, you are born into a state of forced subservience to those who control wealth. There's a word for this form of slavery, and it's "employment."
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So then, I take it you are not currently employed, out of philosophical choice... correct?

How do you support yourself? On the good will of others?
 
TurtleDude said:
yeah if you give someone a job that they readily accept you are a thief

do you realize how idiotic that sounds.
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A dog thanks his master even for scraps.

It's sickly and subservient, but its true.
 
haymarket said:
Because taxation is exactly the same as shopping at Costco according to you Turtle. A high school kid taking Government knows more than you do about the purpose of taxation.
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you confuse what is and what should be--a government should be treated the same as any other service provider. YOu should get what you pay for and not have to pay for the services others get unless it can be proven they have already done something for you.

can you tell me why one group of people should have to pay for the services others use-others who are not veterans or disabled firefighters etc. ie people who have done nothing for those charged with paying for them
 
Whovian said:
So then, I take it you are not currently employed, out of philosophical choice... correct?

How do you support yourself? On the good will of others?
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No, I'm most certainly employed.
 
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