• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

Zyphlin said:
Actually its not, because "fairness" is an intangiable abstraction that is identified differently based on the vantage point of an individual.

You see "fairness" in taking money from people you think don't deserve it and giving it to "less fortunate.". Where as others see taking money from people who have worked to earn said money and giving it to people who haven't worked to earn it as inherently "unfair". Your particular viewpoint of what is or isn't fair is, frankly, irrelevant and far from being some kind of universal guiding tool.

Fairness, like beauty and many other things, is in the eye of the beholder. The issue with trying to pass or push for any kind of government legislation based on "fairness" is the fact that its a meaningless word that could mean a dozen things to a dozen people.
Click to expand...
You still haven't told me why the unfairness of a situation isn't reason to overthrow it. All you have told me is that some may disagree with my view of fairness.

This is irrelevant to me. There will always be people with inconvenient or backward ways of thinking. As far as I'm concerned, that some are born serfs and others are born masters is not a fair system, and that view holds regardless of who does or does not "work" for their money.

In any event, wealth gained through the exploitation of those who create it (the workers) is not wealth anyone has a right to. It is unarguable that capitalism makes it impossible for anyone to be paid a fair price for their work.
 
Last edited:
haymarket said:
Actually, every single word of it is true. If it is not, please tell me where it is inaccurate.

IF you are so able to do. Feel free to dust off some of those old Ivy League college tomes now being used to press old $10,000.00 bills for the needed information. ;)
Click to expand...

you cannot prove your concept of "fair" is "correct"

do pay attention.
 
obama doesn't compromise, he caves

when he's not doing that, he CRAMS (as in health care)

in congress they call it "reconciliation"

in the media it's often referred to as "the nuclear option"

remember?

literally less than 24 hours before ahab crammed his great whale down america's gagging gullet he was willing to DEEM the damn thing

Why Democrats Deem They Need "Deem and Pass" on Health Care | VF Daily | Vanity Fair

never before has so major a reform been passed on to the american people along lines so UNCOMPROMISINGLY partisan

lbj's civil rights act, 1964, for example---a HIGHER proportion of republicans than democrats voted with the escalator of jfk's war in nam, 82% of senate republicans and 80% in the house, vs 69 and 63% from the party of jackson, respectively

Civil Rights Act of 1964 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

medicare, 1965---43% of republican senators voted aye, 51% in the house

Answers.com - How many Republicans voted Yes on the Medicare Act of 1965

social security, 1935---fdr managed the support of 84% and 76% of house and senate R's, respectively

Social Security Online - HISTORY: Vote tallies on 1935 law

contrast obamacare, a major overhaul of 1/6 of the american economy---it was RECONCILED thru senate with ZERO support from the party of lincoln, and in pelosi's place only mr cao, the vietnamese seminarian from orleans, switched over

it is what it is

and now it's all coming home to roost

when obama is not deeming and cramming he's caving

that's his RECORD

live it, libs, love it, it's ALL yours (and joseph cao's)

and TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH, why, they're ALL obama's/mcconnell's/boehner's

party on
 
Patria Antiqua said:
You still haven't told me why the unfairness of a situation isn't reason to overthrow it. All you have told me is that some may disagree with my view of fairness.

This is irrelevant to me. There will always be people with inconvenient or backward ways of thinking. As far as I'm concerned, that some are born serfs and others are born masters is not a fair system, and that view holds regardless of who does or does not "work" for their money.

In any event, wealth gained through the exploitation of those who create it (the workers) is not wealth anyone has a right to. It is unarguable that capitalism makes it impossible for anyone to be paid a fair price for their work.
Click to expand...

Wanna put yourself in a position where you don't get paid a fair wage for your work? Start your own business.

There are businesses, all over this country, today, that have to choose between making payroll, paying taxes and paying bills. Alot of them can't do all three and that's before the business owner even thinks about getting his, "fair share". Yet, some folks are cool with raising taxes on these businesses.

If ya'll were really interested in people, "paying their fair share", you would insist that people who have never paid taxes in their lives, start paying a couple grand a year.

But, that would be counterproductive your strategy in the class war.
 
Last edited:
Patria Antiqua said:
You still haven't told me why the unfairness of a situation isn't reason to overthrow it. All you have told me is that some may disagree with my view of fairness.
Click to expand...
So you're suggesting if you think something is unfair you should try to overthrow it? Heh, I have no issue with you thinking that. I think it’s an extremely unwise thing to base an attempted “overthrow” on because there’s not been a time in the history of this country, and unlikely to be a time anytime in the forseeable future, where there is something so vastly and hugely universally “unfair” as to cause a revolt to the level you speak of. So your attempts at “overthrowing” will be with a relative minority that is ill equipped to do such with the majority of the citizen base disagreeing with your actions to varying desgrees.

I’m not saying its not a reason, I’m saying it’s a dumb reason 95% of the time.

This is irrelevant to me. There will always be people with inconvenient or backward ways of thinking.
Click to expand...

"inconvenient or backwards" translates to "doesn't think like I do".

That's going to really get you far I'm sure.

As far as I'm concerned, that some are born serfs and others are born masters is not a fair system, and that view holds regardless of who does or does not "work" for their money.
Click to expand...

And to me, some having to toil to support those that refuse to put forth at the very least an equal amount of effort will never be a fair system, and that view holds regardless of who or who doesn't have an "equal" life style.

In any event, wealth gained through the exploitation of those who create it (the workers) is not wealth anyone has a right to. It is unarguable that capitalism makes it impossible for anyone to be paid a fair price for their work.
Click to expand...

Again, exploitation is another subjective word that is different to different people. I say those that are ingenuitive, intelligent, and motivated enough to create a situation where they can both employee others while making a comfortable profit for themselves earns that profit through his use of his own talents, skills, and situation. I think it is most "fair" that people are free to attempt to leverage those things, or improve them, to create such a situation if they can and that those who choose to not and simply wish to skate by may also do so, but must suffer the consequences and bonuses of skating by just as those who use their ingenuity must suffer the consequences and bonsues relating to that. I think its impossible to create a wholey "fair" system that is fair at all times, and as such striving for something based singularly on fairness is doomed to failure and will do nothing but institute the type of unfairness that the individual in control is most happy. Essentially, rather than unfairness coming about due to your own actions or due to simple luck and circumstance, it comes about due to the manipulations and creation of someone else that controls said situation through the government.

Again, fairness is worthless as a basis for political change.
 
Patria Antiqua said:
It is unarguable that capitalism makes it impossible for anyone to be paid a fair price for their work.
Click to expand...
Not arguable? :lamo

Name five non-capitalist countries where people are "paid a fair price for their work." In which countries are workers paid the fairest wages?
 
liblady said:
why not answer the question?
Click to expand...

Originally Posted by liblady
how is paying a fair share punishing anyone?

I'm not against people paying a "fair" share. Everyone should pay the same % regardless of income. That's fair.
When those who earn more are taxed at a higher rate it is punishing success.
 
Barbbtx said:
Originally Posted by liblady
how is paying a fair share punishing anyone?

I'm not against people paying a "fair" share. Everyone should pay the same % regardless of income. That's fair.
When those who earn more are taxed at a higher rate it is punishing success.
Click to expand...

ok.....let's all pay 50%.........how would that work for you?
 
Taylor said:
Not arguable? :lamo

Name five non-capitalist countries where people are "paid a fair price for their work." In which countries are workers paid the fairest wages?
Click to expand...
You will never find one until there is a socialist country.
Zyphlin said:
So you're suggesting if you think something is unfair you should try to overthrow it? Heh, I have no issue with you thinking that. I think it’s an extremely unwise thing to base an attempted “overthrow” on because there’s not been a time in the history of this country, and unlikely to be a time anytime in the forseeable future, where there is something so vastly and hugely universally “unfair” as to cause a revolt to the level you speak of. So your attempts at “overthrowing” will be with a relative minority that is ill equipped to do such with the majority of the citizen base disagreeing with your actions to varying desgrees.

I’m not saying its not a reason, I’m saying it’s a dumb reason 95% of the time.



"inconvenient or backwards" translates to "doesn't think like I do".

That's going to really get you far I'm sure.



And to me, some having to toil to support those that refuse to put forth at the very least an equal amount of effort will never be a fair system, and that view holds regardless of who or who doesn't have an "equal" life style.



Again, exploitation is another subjective word that is different to different people. I say those that are ingenuitive, intelligent, and motivated enough to create a situation where they can both employee others while making a comfortable profit for themselves earns that profit through his use of his own talents, skills, and situation. I think it is most "fair" that people are free to attempt to leverage those things, or improve them, to create such a situation if they can and that those who choose to not and simply wish to skate by may also do so, but must suffer the consequences and bonuses of skating by just as those who use their ingenuity must suffer the consequences and bonsues relating to that. I think its impossible to create a wholey "fair" system that is fair at all times, and as such striving for something based singularly on fairness is doomed to failure and will do nothing but institute the type of unfairness that the individual in control is most happy. Essentially, rather than unfairness coming about due to your own actions or due to simple luck and circumstance, it comes about due to the manipulations and creation of someone else that controls said situation through the government.

Again, fairness is worthless as a basis for political change.
Click to expand...
It's the noble's duty, my friend. It's a somewhat feudal idea, but those that are priviliged as noble's are forced to look after the peasantry. If you are going to live in a slave/master society, then the masters are at least obligated to support the slave.

apdst said:
Wanna put yourself in a position where you don't get paid a fair wage for your work? Start your own business.
There are businesses, all over this country, today, that have to choose between making payroll, paying taxes and paying bills. Alot of them can't do all three and that's before the business owner even thinks about getting his, "fair share". Yet, some folks are cool with raising taxes on these businesses.

If ya'll were really interested in people, "paying their fair share", you would insist that people who have never paid taxes in their lives, start paying a couple grand a year.

But, that would be counterproductive your strategy in the class war.
Click to expand...
No, but thank you. I despise being a slave, but what I despise more is being the slave driver.
 
liblady said:
ok.....let's all pay 50%.........how would that work for you?
Click to expand...

If it's a flat 50%, with no tacked on bull**** like matching social security and medicare, and heavy road use taxes, I'm all for it.

How 'bout you?

Personally, I think every person and corporation that turns a buck, should cough up 10 cents off every dollar they report as profit.
 
apdst said:
And, the alternative to getting out in the real world and making a living, is??
Click to expand...
I have no alternative. I either make myself a serf to a man of capital, or I hold the whip myself. Either way, I am degraded by the system.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Z3n
apdst said:
If it's a flat 50%, with no tacked on bull**** like matching social security and medicare, and heavy road use taxes, I'm all for it.

How 'bout you?

Personally, I think every person and corporation that turns a buck, should cough up 10 cents off every dollar they report as profit.
Click to expand...

50% would be pretty tough for most people. i'm glad it's affordable for you.
 
Patria Antiqua said:
I have no alternative. I either make myself a serf to a man of capital, or I hold the whip myself. Either way, I am degraded by the system.
Click to expand...

life's a bitch and reality bites
 
liblady said:
50% would be pretty tough for most people. i'm glad it's affordable for you.
Click to expand...

its fair though. isn't that what you libs want?

you always talk about treating people equally in many areas-why the hesitance to do it in this area?
 
liblady said:
50% would be pretty tough for most people. i'm glad it's affordable for you.
Click to expand...

Hell, a flat 50% would be better than what I'm paying now, when you factor in all the other taxes that my business pays, such as FET on friggin' tires. I wonder what asshole thought that was a good idea.

As it is, now, after I make payroll taxes, some weeks, there's nothing left.

I have an even better idea to boost tax revenue: the government can get the **** out of the private sector's way and let us get back to making money!
 
Last edited:
TurtleDude said:
its fair though. isn't that what you libs want?

you always talk about treating people equally in many areas-why the hesitance to do it in this area?
Click to expand...

no, it's not fair. it's fair to ask someone making 25k a year to pay half of their income in taxes? utter bvll****.
 
TurtleDude said:
life's a bitch and reality bites
Click to expand...
That's true, the world as it is now is one of horrible injustice, perpetuated by the creeps and thieves like you who justify it.

When life is unfair, you revolt against unfair conditions, not just hold your dick complacently.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Z3n
Barbbtx said:
If everybody paid there would be no need for anyone to pay that much.
Click to expand...

can you prove a link to validate that? and would you have a person making 25k a year pay the same % as a person making 250k a year, 0r 2.5MM a year?

show me the math.
 
Patria Antiqua said:
I have no alternative. I either make myself a serf to a man of capital, or I hold the whip myself. Either way, I am degraded by the system.
Click to expand...

It's not all that hard to be totally self sufficient. It just takes a larger than average amount of work ethic.
 
apdst said:
It's not all that hard to be totally self sufficient. It just takes a larger than average amount of work ethic.
Click to expand...
Are you talking about those people who live in cabins and **** in pots? Or are you referring to some other form of self-sufficiency?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom