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Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

apdst said:
Do you own a business? or do you eat from the trough and as long as the trough is filled, regularly, you're good with things?

"Tax'em to death!...as long as you fill my trough every morning".
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wth are you babbling about?
 
Patria Antiqua said:
Until those forced into the subservience of employment take control of business, the rich will always be the dominators of the poor.
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no one is 'forced into the subservience of employment'... unless they want to eat, drink, have clothing, a place to live, transportation, etc etc etc.
 
Whovian said:
no one is 'forced into the subservience of employment'... unless they want to eat, drink, have clothing, a place to live, transportation, etc etc etc.
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some of our young marxist friends have major problems with free men and women being able to enter into contracts
 
SirPwn4lot said:
You're 100% right. If the poor got together and rose up I seriously doubt they'd be able to do anything substantial, even if it were the bottom 50% of income earners.

I'm starting to like you :)
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Most poor people are poor, because they don't have the gumption to get out and get a job. What makes anyone think they have enough sap to revolt, and actually achieve a positive outcome?
 
Patria Antiqua said:
Until those forced into the subservience of employment take control of business, the rich will always be the dominators of the poor.
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No one in this country is, "forced into the subservience of employment". That's plumb rediculous.
 
Whovian said:
no one is 'forced into the subservience of employment'... unless they want to eat, drink, have clothing, a place to live, transportation, etc etc etc.
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That's correct. Those born without wealth are born in a state of subserviance to those with wealth.

It's all of the tyranny you oppose from government, except that it comes from the ruling elites.
 
Patria Antiqua said:
That's correct. Those born without wealth are born in a state of subserviance to those with wealth.

It's all of the tyranny you oppose from government, except that it comes from the ruling elites.
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Life is unfair

that is not an excuse to support a government that tries to make it so at the expense of constitutional rights
 
TurtleDude said:
Life is unfair
that is not an excuse to support a government that tries to make it so at the expense of constitutional rights
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It's a perfect reason, actually.

Unlike you and your Constitution-fellating, right-wing friends, I support true liberty. Liberty that is not based on how much wealth you have. Life is unfair under capitalism; that's why the time has come for alternatives.
 
Patria Antiqua said:
It's a perfect reason, actually.

Unlike you and your Constitution-fellating, right-wing friends, I support true liberty. Liberty that is not based on how much wealth you have. Life is unfair under capitalism; that's why the time has come for alternatives.
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nah you don't like liberty, you hate it. you want to force people who are winners to lose so the losers feel better and people like you get power doing so . Life is unfair under any system but yours creates a leviathan that can kill millions to create your concept of fairness while mine merely requires nothing more than benign neglect.

Try your alternatives-maybe you and Haymarket can start the peoples' revolution against capitalism

you can contemplate how long that will last
 
TurtleDude said:
nah you don't like liberty, you hate it. you want to force people who are winners to lose so the losers feel better and people like you get power doing so . Life is unfair under any system but yours creates a leviathan that can kill millions to create your concept of fairness while mine merely requires nothing more than benign neglect.

Try your alternatives-maybe you and Haymarket can start the peoples' revolution against capitalism

you can contemplate how long that will last
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Decades and decades, if history is any indicator.

You can spout all your strawman nonsense about "forcing people to lose," we know why your rhetoric is high on paranoia and low on argumentation. It's because you're afraid that the oppressed worker will revolt against his chains, and you will be expropriated in the process. You don't love liberty; you fear it, because true liberty has men like you in its crosshairs.
 
Patria Antiqua said:
Decades and decades, if history is any indicator.

You can spout all your strawman nonsense about "forcing people to lose," we know why your rhetoric is high on paranoia and low on argumentation. It's because you're afraid that the oppressed worker will revolt against his chains, and you will be expropriated in the process. You don't love liberty; you fear it, because true liberty has men like you in its crosshairs.
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you wouldn't know liberty if it jumped up and bit you in your ass. Your spartacus youth league slogans are indicative of a kid who really hasn't been in the real world for much time.

true liberty is not something the government imposes kid
 
TurtleDude said:
nah you don't like liberty, you hate it. you want to force people who are winners to lose so the losers feel better and people like you get power doing so . Life is unfair under any system but yours creates a leviathan that can kill millions to create your concept of fairness while mine merely requires nothing more than benign neglect.

Try your alternatives-maybe you and Haymarket can start the peoples' revolution against capitalism

you can contemplate how long that will last
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Before you take my name in vain, it would be nice to check with me to see if I want to get rid of capitalism ... once it is brought back and reinstalled that is. We have had a mixed economy for some time now, regardless if you like it or not, regardless if you will admit it or not. Pure unadulterated balls-to-the-walls capitalism has been dead here for some time now.

and more from Turtle,

true liberty is not something the government imposes kid
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of course it isn't ... its actually a nice bright and shiny bumper sticker.
 
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TurtleDude said:
you wouldn't know liberty if it jumped up and bit you in your ass. Your spartacus youth league slogans are indicative of a kid who really hasn't been in the real world for much time.

true liberty is not something the government imposes kid
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The only thing that can protect liberty is the force of the state. It seems that everyone in the Western world has learned this except America.

Condescending to people does not make you any less of an illiterate useful idiot for the forces of oppression.
 
liblady said:
i am trying to figure you out, barb. why else? i don't mean this in a nasty way.
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If you must know, I'm disabled and don't know when, if, I'll be able to work again. I'm living off my 401K and hoping it will last until I either can work again or collect social security.
I'm doing my best to stay off disability benefits until then. I own my own mobile home and land, my own truck, so have fewer bills than most people. I splurge on internet and Dish TV but frugal when it comes to other luxuries. I don't even have a cell phone because I can do without one. Oh yea, I also "splurge" on my favorite charities, but find that is money well spent. It always comes back to me in one form or another.
So, why are you a liberal? What gave you that mindset?
 
Patria Antiqua said:
The only thing that can protect liberty is the force of the state. It seems that everyone in the Western world has learned this except America.

Condescending to people does not make you any less of an illiterate useful idiot for the forces of oppression.
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income redistribution runs counter to liberty

liberty includes failing and suffering the consequences
 
Barbbtx said:
If you must know, I'm disabled and don't know when, if, I'll be able to work again. I'm living off my 401K and hoping it will last until I either can work again or collect social security.
I'm doing my best to stay off disability benefits until then. I own my own mobile home and land, my own truck, so have fewer bills than most people. I splurge on internet and Dish TV but frugal when it comes to other luxuries. I don't even have a cell phone because I can do without one. Oh yea, I also "splurge" on my favorite charities, but find that is money well spent. It always comes back to me in one form or another.
So, why are you a liberal? What gave you that mindset?
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a sense of justice and fainess....and i really didn't mean for you to provide specific details.
 
Patria Antiqua said:
Decades and decades, if history is any indicator.

You can spout all your strawman nonsense about "forcing people to lose," we know why your rhetoric is high on paranoia and low on argumentation. It's because you're afraid that the oppressed worker will revolt against his chains, and you will be expropriated in the process. You don't love liberty; you fear it, because true liberty has men like you in its crosshairs.
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The oppressed are the ones living off others work and being oppressed by the progressives with the handouts.
I don't get how you think "workers" are oppressed. Someone has to pay the bills.
 
TurtleDude said:
income redistribution runs counter to liberty
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It runs counter to the liberty of the rich majority, maybe, but it acts in the interest of the liberty of everyone else. It ends the slavery of the worker to those who own capital.
liberty includes failing and suffering the consequences
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Okay, but that has nothing to do with anything we're discussing.
 
Barbbtx said:
The oppressed are the ones living off others work and being oppressed by the progressives with the handouts.
I don't get how you think "workers" are oppressed. Someone has to pay the bills.
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and by gosh it should be the workers,huh?
 
Patria Antiqua said:
It runs counter to the liberty of the rich majority, maybe, but it acts in the interest of the liberty of everyone else. It ends the slavery of the worker to those who own capital.

Okay, but that has nothing to do with anything we're discussing.
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MOre communist nonsense. liberty and rights are not impositions on others

study that fact
 
Barbbtx said:
The oppressed are the ones living off others work and being oppressed by the progressives with the handouts.
I don't get how you think "workers" are oppressed. Someone has to pay the bills.
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The worker is oppressed in this society merely by being a worker. Unless you are born into a particular class, you are born into a state of forced subservience to those who control wealth. There's a word for this form of slavery, and it's "employment."
 
TurtleDude said:
MOre communist nonsense. liberty and rights are not impositions on others

study that fact
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Maybe you should chickity-check yourself before you wreck yourself.

Study that fact.
 
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Patria Antiqua said:
Maybe you should chickity-check yourself before you wreck yourself.

Study that fact.
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My concept of liberty and rights are consistent with this country's traditions

yours are not

a right is the ability to do something without being punished by the government. Same with liberty. Liberty is the ability to act without the government interfering.

your right to free speech does not require me to buy you a microphone. Your right to bear arms is not a just demand for a gunshop to give you a weapon. YOur ability to travel in this nation is not a claim on Ford to provide you a car or Delta to give you a free round trip airline ticket
 
liblady said:
a sense of justice and fainess....and i really didn't mean for you to provide specific details.
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So to you, fairness is taking from those who earned it and giving to those who didn't?

Justice is punishing those who succeed?

Not trying to be snarky. Just really curious as to what liberals consider fairness.
 
liblady said:
and by gosh it should be the workers,huh?
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Huh? Of course you should have to work if you want to pay the bills.
Thing is liberals want the workers to pay the bills for those who don't work.
Damn, you're forcing me to sound like a heartless bitch. (I'm not)
There are those who can't work and when there are no other options, the government should take care of their needs. However, it's not governments job to take care of them from cradle to grave.
 
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