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Thread: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    This thread was about tax cuts, remember ?

    Kandahar wrote :

    "There is no reason that Obama needed to be so weak on this issue. He was in a stronger position than the Republicans politically (Democrats control half of Congress and the White House...and until January, ALL of Congress and the White House). He was in a stronger position than the Republicans structurally (the bill was going to expire in the absence of action, which would have been less acceptable to the Republicans than the Democrats). And he was even on the side of public opinion (the majority of voters didn't want to see tax cuts for the rich extended).

    I can only draw two conclusions: A) Obama is incompetent and doesn't know how to negotiate, or B) he actually agrees with the Republicans about tax cuts for the rich. I'm not sure which conclusion pisses me off more."


    Republicans had the high ground. They had nothing to lose. At worst the super rich folks they suck up to (if not are bribed by) would simply not get richer (Boo hoo). Quite tolerable.
    Obama, on the other hand, had a lot to lose. The working poor would have gotten tax increases, and the unemployed would have suddenly found themselves with no income in a dead job market. Millions of people would be evicted from homes and other nightmares.
    You can't deal effectively when the people you're dealing with (McConnell, Boehner, et al Republicans) are bunch of conscienceless, hostage-taking thugs, with no concern for the American people. They ought to be hung for treason.

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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Protectionist View Post
    This thread was about tax cuts, remember ?

    Kandahar wrote :

    "There is no reason that Obama needed to be so weak on this issue. He was in a stronger position than the Republicans politically (Democrats control half of Congress and the White House...and until January, ALL of Congress and the White House). He was in a stronger position than the Republicans structurally (the bill was going to expire in the absence of action, which would have been less acceptable to the Republicans than the Democrats). And he was even on the side of public opinion (the majority of voters didn't want to see tax cuts for the rich extended).

    I can only draw two conclusions: A) Obama is incompetent and doesn't know how to negotiate, or B) he actually agrees with the Republicans about tax cuts for the rich. I'm not sure which conclusion pisses me off more."


    Republicans had the high ground. They had nothing to lose. At worst the super rich folks they suck up to (if not are bribed by) would simply not get richer (Boo hoo). Quite tolerable.
    Obama, on the other hand, had a lot to lose. The working poor would have gotten tax increases, and the unemployed would have suddenly found themselves with no income in a dead job market. Millions of people would be evicted from homes and other nightmares.
    You can't deal effectively when the people you're dealing with (McConnell, Boehner, et al Republicans) are bunch of conscienceless, hostage-taking thugs, with no concern for the American people. They ought to be hung for treason.
    Oh no here come the comparisons to mass murderers D:

    I don't see how this deal was surprising at all... what exactly has Obama/the Democrats done to make you think they make an effort to fight anyway? Almost everything they've caved on...

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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by SirPwn4lot View Post
    Oh no here come the comparisons to mass murderers D:

    I don't see how this deal was surprising at all... what exactly has Obama/the Democrats done to make you think they make an effort to fight anyway? Almost everything they've caved on...
    Only thing surprising is it still being called a "deal". Extortion would be a more fitting description.

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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post


    Really? answers.com? really?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Protectionist View Post
    Only thing surprising is it still being called a "deal". Extortion would be a more fitting description.
    Not really, the Obama administration serves the same corporate interests, the financial community contributed to him over McCain because they viewed him as being easier to influence. If the Dems really wanted they could do just about anything. The Republicans aren't blocking anything, it's an excuse so they can serve the same interests.
    Last edited by SirPwn4lot; 12-09-10 at 01:44 PM.

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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean City View Post
    How has my argument been castrated? Because I want to stick to the debate instead getting into a personal exchange about gun credentials? Those type of back and forth dick measuring competitions never lead to anything but mods kicking both parties out of a thread. If you must know I was U.S. Army Military Police. 709th Military Police Bn. MOS 95B10 "66-68". Got out and went into law enforcement. Became interested in the carbines and assault rifles again when I thought about trying to make SWAT. Bought a Bushmaster M4-Type Carbine and started taking every reputable tactical carbine course I could find in my state to sharpen my skills. Never gave up my passion for the pistol and eventually took the classes and got the NRA law enforcement firearm certification. Had a kid and gave up on the SWAT idea. Now I teach firearms classes every once in a while.

    Now lets stick to the debate at hand and not derail this thread even farther than it already has been derailed.

    Like whom? I'm curious.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Bushmaster? Get a RRA or a Lewis Machine Tool or a Noveseke if you can afford it. You sound like one of my buddies. John Benner of TDI

    thank you for your service


    Noveske polygonal FTW. :
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by SirPwn4lot View Post
    Not really, the Obama administration serves the same corporate interests, the financial community contributed to him over McCain because they viewed him as being easier to influence. If the Dems really wanted they could do just about anything. The Republicans aren't blocking anything, it's an excuse so they can serve the same interests.
    Sounds like you're dreaming.

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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Protectionist View Post
    Sounds like you're dreaming.
    Look at the campaign contributions. Individuals who work for banks overwhelmingly give more to Democrats. The individuals in Goldman Sachs gave over 3x as much to Obama as they did to McCain in the 08' election.

    In terms of outcomes... take healthcare for example. The public was largely opposed to the bill passed, but large segments of national and state population were in favor of the public option. The Democrats had the House, Senate and Presidency. It was not politically impossible by any means, if the Democrats got together and did what the public wanted, to pass a proper, substantial healthcare bill. Instead they passed a watered down piece of nothing that I, and most of the US, opposes. And in return they got exactly 0 Republican votes.

    Take financial matters. The Democrats voted 172-63 in the house for the bailouts. Financial "reform" was laughable. There were surely some great things in it, but on the whole it didn't solve the problem at its core, something that isn't politically impossible to do, or at least attempt. Then there's this deal. The tax cuts were certainly not guaranteed. Even if you agree that he should have passed them at all, there's no doubt he made a horrible deal. He could have gotten a significant amount more than he did (if it passes Congress, which it probably will). His deficit commission recommended slashing top income rates below what Bush proposed.

    Then there's the military. The Obama administration increased military spending, increase troop numbers in Afghanistan, continued both wars, pushed for tighter sanctions against Iran, continued to use veto powers in the UN, etc, etc. On top of this, his justice department fought the Supreme Court ruling that Guantanamo Bay detainees have the right of Habeas Corpus (the cornerstone of the American justice system), they haven't even bothered repealing don't ask don't tell, even though they still have majorities and even some Republican support, as well as the support of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the Defense Secretary, etc, etc, and the vast majority of soldiers saying that a repeal would have little-no effect on short term personal readiness, etc, etc.

    His Attorney General, Eric Holder is considering charging Assange under the Espionage Act of 1917, income inequality continues to skyrocket, real wages continue to decrease, he invites lobbyists to the white house for a little chat and he maintains the US policy on Israel/Palestine.

    He does, however, act like the Republicans have his hands tied on all these things, a defining feature.

    If you want other examples I'd be glad to provide them.

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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by SirPwn4lot View Post
    Look at the campaign contributions. Individuals who work for banks overwhelmingly give more to Democrats. The individuals in Goldman Sachs gave over 3x as much to Obama as they did to McCain in the 08' election.

    In terms of outcomes... take healthcare for example. The public was largely opposed to the bill passed, but large segments of national and state population were in favor of the public option. The Democrats had the House, Senate and Presidency. It was not politically impossible by any means, if the Democrats got together and did what the public wanted, to pass a proper, substantial healthcare bill. Instead they passed a watered down piece of nothing that I, and most of the US, opposes. And in return they got exactly 0 Republican votes.

    Take financial matters. The Democrats voted 172-63 in the house for the bailouts. Financial "reform" was laughable. There were surely some great things in it, but on the whole it didn't solve the problem at its core, something that isn't politically impossible to do, or at least attempt. Then there's this deal. The tax cuts were certainly not guaranteed. Even if you agree that he should have passed them at all, there's no doubt he made a horrible deal. He could have gotten a significant amount more than he did (if it passes Congress, which it probably will). His deficit commission recommended slashing top income rates below what Bush proposed.

    Then there's the military. The Obama administration increased military spending, increase troop numbers in Afghanistan, continued both wars, pushed for tighter sanctions against Iran, continued to use veto powers in the UN, etc, etc. On top of this, his justice department fought the Supreme Court ruling that Guantanamo Bay detainees have the right of Habeas Corpus (the cornerstone of the American justice system), they haven't even bothered repealing don't ask don't tell, even though they still have majorities and even some Republican support, as well as the support of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the Defense Secretary, etc, etc, and the vast majority of soldiers saying that a repeal would have little-no effect on short term personal readiness, etc, etc.

    His Attorney General, Eric Holder is considering charging Assange under the Espionage Act of 1917, income inequality continues to skyrocket, real wages continue to decrease, he invites lobbyists to the white house for a little chat and he maintains the US policy on Israel/Palestine.

    He does, however, act like the Republicans have his hands tied on all these things, a defining feature.

    If you want other examples I'd be glad to provide them.
    No, I've seen enough black is white, white is black, cold is hot and hot is cold, from you. I'm 65 years old. I've been hearing BS talk for a long time. Sure don't need more of it, much less a filibuster.

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