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Thread: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

  1. #201
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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    That's not the point. People have much more potential than just working physical grunt labor. Liveable wage? OHSA? 8 hour work day(anarchist imposed)? There's a lot of arguments to be made.
    I understand your point about potential. That is why I support progressive taxation. I believe if some sort of benefit can be given in our society it should be given to those who are less well off. I believe a progressive tax not only benefits those who make less money but also helps them work their way up in society. I support the minimum wage to a point. A living wage, while it sounds good, will most likely do more harm than good, for economic reasons. OSHA and other laws that protect employees are important. I support them. They are part of the reason why I think it is absurd that someone in the USA would feel like they literally are participating in wage slavery.

    I would argue that employers dont treat employees well at all. Look at labor being moved to India and China for 60 cents an hour and in horrid working conditions. These are American companies...:P
    I agree, working conditions in developing nations are not comparable to that of a first world nation such as the US. But, opening these countries up to investment is important to their development. There low wages are not because of theiving capitalists but because of lower productivity. Labor in developing nations simply is not worth as much. This is just a fact of life.

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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    I hope not, but I'm hearing it already from callers on talk radio.
    Yeah, they'll bitch about even the most mild concession for a couple days. Then they'll go on to bitching about something else. No serious conservative is going to seriously object to a small extension of unemployment benefits when it is coupled with huge tax cuts that won't expire until after Obama's term is over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx
    Some were even pissed that there was only a 2 yr extention. Personally I think the Republicans did a good job on this and I'm proud of them. Obama did the right thing too. It's a win win.
    A win-win for the Republicans, yes. But let's not pretend that there was some give-and-take here. Obama gave the Republicans everything they wanted, and all he got in exchange was an extension of unemployment benefits, valued at $56 billion. Sorry if I'm not impressed.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 12-07-10 at 10:23 PM.
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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    I'm your king.

    We'll I didnt vote for you.
    I thought we were an autonomous collective!



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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    I understand your point about potential. That is why I support progressive taxation. I believe if some sort of benefit can be given in our society it should be given to those who are less well off. I believe a progressive tax not only benefits those who make less money but also helps them work their way up in society. I support the minimum wage to a point. A living wage, while it sounds good, will most likely do more harm than good, for economic reasons. OSHA and other laws that protect employees are important. I support them. They are part of the reason why I think it is absurd that someone in the USA would feel like they literally are participating in wage slavery.



    I agree, working conditions in developing nations are not comparable to that of a first world nation such as the US. But, opening these countries up to investment is important to their development. There low wages are not because of theiving capitalists but because of lower productivity. Labor in developing nations simply is not worth as much. This is just a fact of life.
    HOw does a progressive tax help people work their way up into society

    that sounds like complete and utter BS

    the main reason for progressive income taxes is to buy the votes with the many by telling them that only the most heavily taxed citizens will have to pay more taxes



  5. #205
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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I thought we were an autonomous collective!
    You're fooling yourself! We're living in a dictatorship, a self perpetuation autocracy where the working classes....
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    You're fooling yourself! We're living in a dictatorship, a self perpetuation autocracy where the working classes....
    we are DOOMED

    doomed we are!!



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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    HOw does a progressive tax help people work their way up into society

    that sounds like complete and utter BS

    the main reason for progressive income taxes is to buy the votes with the many by telling them that only the most heavily taxed citizens will have to pay more taxes
    I think it helps people move up in society because it lets people who earn less money keep a larger amount of it. It lets people take on more risk than they otherwise would. This means that some people who make less money might go to school longer, or might start their own business, when otherwise they might not have. Also, things like the earned income tax credit incentivize work even more and give people a larger incentive to find a job. People typically do not like their income to go down, so when the earned income tax credit expires people will work harder to keep their income high.

    You like to focus on the voting side of it. I don't really believe that is the case though. For example, colorado has a system where taxes can only be changed through referendum. Yet colorado still has a flat income tax and I don't see it changing any time soon.

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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    I think it helps people move up in society because it lets people who earn less money keep a larger amount of it. It lets people take on more risk than they otherwise would. This means that some people who make less money might go to school longer, or might start their own business, when otherwise they might not have. Also, things like the earned income tax credit incentivize work even more and give people a larger incentive to find a job. People typically do not like their income to go down, so when the earned income tax credit expires people will work harder to keep their income high.

    You like to focus on the voting side of it. I don't really believe that is the case though. For example, colorado has a system where taxes can only be changed through referendum. Yet colorado still has a flat income tax and I don't see it changing any time soon.
    a flat tax wouldn't change that either.



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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    The dems are spineless. They sicken me almost as much as the republicans.

    American politics: giving more money to those who don't need it since 2000.

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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    Obama lashed out at Democrats today, and had the nerve to compare this "compromise" to giving up the public-option in the health care bill. Let me explain the difference: It's one thing to give up an important concession if it leads to a positive result (e.g. a solid health care bill) with enough votes to pass. I fully supported that. It's another thing to concede everything the other side wants, without getting anything substantial in exchange.

    There is no reason that Obama needed to be so weak on this issue. He was in a stronger position than the Republicans politically (Democrats control half of Congress and the White House...and until January, ALL of Congress and the White House). He was in a stronger position than the Republicans structurally (the bill was going to expire in the absence of action, which would have been less acceptable to the Republicans than the Democrats). And he was even on the side of public opinion (the majority of voters didn't want to see tax cuts for the rich extended).

    I can only draw two conclusions: A) Obama is incompetent and doesn't know how to negotiate, or B) he actually agrees with the Republicans about tax cuts for the rich. I'm not sure which conclusion pisses me off more.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 12-08-10 at 12:20 AM.
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