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Thread: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

  1. #191
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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean. You don't trust a society without a state and a market?
    Absolutely not.

    Anyhow, on that note, I have a class to attend. If you send me a PM I'd love to get around to it ASAP.

  2. #192
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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    And that is a poor analogy, if we are discussing things seriously. If you just want to tell me about how you hate work, whatever, but if you are actually serious I disagree.

    From your link:

    "Since slavery was abolished, human earning power is forbidden by law to be capitalized. A man is not even free to sell himself; he must rent himself at a wage." - Paul Samuelson
    No but seriously you need to understand Marxist concepts of what wage-slavery is. You are estranged and alienated from your labor. It is not human to you. You are a cog in a machine. You make money to buy clothes and sometimes a house instead of chattel slavery which provides all of that for you. You are exploited, owned, dominated. You are inhuman under a capitalist system.
    Don't tread on me= Don't tread on my corporate masters

  3. #193
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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    But we should talk about obama now i think enough of all of this theoretical and philosophical criticisms of material conditions :p <3
    Don't tread on me= Don't tread on my corporate masters

  4. #194
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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    No but seriously you need to understand Marxist concepts of what wage-slavery is. You are estranged and alienated from your labor. It is not human to you. You are a cog in a machine. You make money to buy clothes and sometimes a house instead of chattel slavery which provides all of that for you. You are exploited, owned, dominated. You are inhuman under a capitalist system.
    That marxist concept has no place in reality. This is not Germany in 1848. Employers treat their employees very well in the US.

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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    That marxist concept has no place in reality. This is not Germany in 1848. Employers treat their employees very well in the US.
    That's not the point. People have much more potential than just working physical grunt labor. Liveable wage? OHSA? 8 hour work day(anarchist imposed)? There's a lot of arguments to be made.

    I would argue that employers dont treat employees well at all. Look at labor being moved to India and China for 60 cents an hour and in horrid working conditions. These are American companies...

    :P
    Don't tread on me= Don't tread on my corporate masters

  6. #196
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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Patria Antiqua View Post
    Yes.

    I was born a serf to the capitalist class, and, barring a drastic change in my circumstances, I will die a serf to the capitalist class.
    .............

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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    .............
    lol I mean i like Marxist political argument as much as the next guy but :P
    Don't tread on me= Don't tread on my corporate masters

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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    Voice of reason here...

    While I disagree with extending the Bush tax cuts, I can understand why the President agreed to extending them. What folks on both sides of the political aisle forget is that although a President my be affiliated with a particular political party, he still has to do what he believes is right for the country. In this case, it meant compromising even in the one core area he didn't want to compromise in - extending tax breaks for the wealthiest wage earners when by not extending them he could have uses that tax revenue to pay down the debt. Conservatives continue to claim Pres. Obama wouldn't do that, but you really don't know that for sure. Based on his actions of late, i.e., establishing the debt commission, I'd have to give him the benefit of the doubt here. However, there are a few things this tax compromise does in his favor:

    1. He shows that the GOP was willing to put the concerns of their party politics ahead of the needs of the People. Think about it; Dems were very willing to allow the tax cuts to continue for 98% of Americans while the GOP held out for who? That last 2%. What the Pres. loses in political capital with his fellow politicians on the Hill, he makes up for it be dropping a portion of his ideology and putting the needs of the People first.
    2. It's a win-win for all sides: the poor, the middle-class, businesses large and small, the rich, the GOP and in some way the Dems. How? A) the working poor/middle-class get to keep the "Making Work Pay" tax credit, businesses decrease their payroll tax by as much as 2%, wealthy Americans get to keep their tax reduction under the Bush tax cuts plus receive a 15% reduction in the estate tax (down from 50% to 35%).
    3. Places emphasis on comsumer demand. The hope is by reducting the tax burden on businesses which will have a net affect on employees, consumers will go out and start making purchases using the added income that will go directly into their paychecks.
    4. Dems won't have to fight the GOP on extending unemployment benefits for the next 13-months. The hope here is should the economy show decent signs of improving, the country won't need to allocate these funds for very long.

    So, when you really sit back and think about it, the only person who was on the side of the American people was the President. Dems wanted him to tow the party line and not approve taxes for the rich, the GOP held fast to getting the taxes extended for the wealthy, but the only person who looked out for the economy and, by default, the People was the President. He did what a President is suppose to do - set his partisan ideology aside long enough to do what is in the best interest of the country. Now, it's up to Congress to do their part. There is, however, a rub to this...

    Post to be continued...

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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    "two more years where you dems cannot steal more money from our most productive tax payers.
    Obama is the joke"


    Taking back what should have rightfully been yours to begin with isn't stealing. There's plenty to say that the "most productive tax payers" (business owners) are stealing from their employees, who really are the ones creating the income/profit.
    Kind of like if a pickpocket grabs your wallet, and you chase him down and take back your wallet. Are you, at that point, stealing the wallet from him ? No, because it wasn't rightfully his to begin with. This is also true (partially) with regard to capital/labor.

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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    he certainly didn't CAVE willingly

    and he did it with such bitterness, halperin (time mag, msnbc) on chris matthews just now said, "no grace, no wisdom, no humor"

    dem leadership is on record in favor of TAX HIKES in the midst of a RECESSION

    R's (with enough responsible-minded D's to force the prez to CAVE)---don't raise taxes in times like these

    R's have econ 101 on our side

    dem leadership has a WORSENING economy, despite hundreds of B's of govt proaction

    Unemployment at 9.8% - Chicago Sun-Times

    we're heading into 2012 with THIS ISSUE at the forefront

    who's gonna BELIEVE obama?

    conservatives---note the participation in this debate, it tells you all you need know

    we have the lifelessly passe posturing of the dead revolutionary left of the 60's

    and we have a splinter, less than a fringe, of mainstream american political sentiment

    that's all that remains (as of today) to contend with

    good job, friends

    we have generally demonstrated remarkable unity, discipline and maturity

    we must persist with professionalism

    for obama to get off the mat he's gonna have to...

    but he's incapable, it's just not in his dna, nor his understanding

    he's a completely inept and tone deaf politician

    party on, paltry prog's

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