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Thread: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

  1. #181
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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Patria Antiqua View Post
    I don't see why that is necessarily so. As I said, the democratic nature of the working enviroment can ensure that pay reflects labor contributed.


    Yes, but if you see things as they are now, surely material conditions would move people to socialism? Even if they were, how could we be so sure that greed would not cause them to revert to some form of atavistic capitalism? Even now, the first amendment is what protects the freedom for those with unpopular views to speak. If people were not talk to worship it, do you think that people would respect the right of people to advocate socialism now?

    Yes, the state is just as susceptible to abusive behavior as the many, but the state is also the only thing that can uphold that thin veneer of civilization. We could wait thousands of years for people to see the truth of socialism, but there is action that needs to be taken now.
    Well you and your bolsheviks go on then! lol

    Nah but in seriousness. You have to understand that the dangers of socialist revolution ALWAYS lie in the vanguard/proletariat dictatorship which ushers in radical reforms. Stalin, Mao, Castro, Pol Pot would all see themselves as state socialist but the atrocities they committed were horrid. They are just as bad as any bourgeois leader like Hitler, Mussolini etc but they actually have more power because they have a popular mandate. This is especially true with Mao. He organized the peasantry to win against Shang Ki Shek and then abused power like the best of em.
    Don't tread on me= Don't tread on my corporate masters

  2. #182
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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Patria Antiqua View Post
    The American people demonstrated on that day that they are deeply, deeply mislead, and very deluded about where the real tyranny comes from in this country. The despots in this country aren't in the White House (at least, not directly). They are the fatcat CEOs and hedge fund managers.
    We need a government to protect us from the CEO's, because there's no one to protect us from the government.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  3. #183
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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Patria Antiqua View Post
    You're probably a serf, too.

    It actually doesn't change all that much, as far as I can tell. Nobody has ever bothered to substantiate this idea that anyone who works hard enough will the new CEO of Walmart.

    It doesn't matter if the slave can become the master, slavery is still unjustified.
    Slavery is an extremely inaccurate term for what you are saying.

    As far as economic mobility goes, it is very high in the US. According to Greg Mankiw in Principles of Economics:

    "In a typical 10 year period, about one in four families falls below the poverty line for at least one year. Yet fewer than 3% of families are poor for 8 or more years...If a father earn 20 percent above his generations average income, his son will most likely earn 8% above his generations average income. There is only a small correlation between the income of a grandfather and the income of a grandson...only one in five millionaires inherited their fortunes."

  4. #184
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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    Slavery is an extremely inaccurate term for what you are saying.

    As far as economic mobility goes, it is very high in the US. According to Greg Mankiw in Principles of Economics:

    "In a typical 10 year period, about one in four families falls below the poverty line for at least one year. Yet fewer than 3% of families are poor for 8 or more years...If a father earn 20 percent above his generations average income, his son will most likely earn 8% above his generations average income. There is only a small correlation between the income of a grandfather and the income of a grandson...only one in five millionaires inherited their fortunes."
    You need to read up on the type of logic he espouses..Wage slavery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Don't tread on me= Don't tread on my corporate masters

  5. #185
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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    omg monty python yesss
    yeah, I see Haymarket and Patria as the Black Knights



  6. #186
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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    Well you and your bolsheviks go on then! lol

    Nah but in seriousness. You have to understand that the dangers of socialist revolution ALWAYS lie in the vanguard/proletariat dictatorship which ushers in radical reforms. Stalin, Mao, Castro, Pol Pot would all see themselves as state socialist but the atrocities they committed were horrid. They are just as bad as any bourgeois leader like Hitler, Mussolini etc but they actually have more power because they have a popular mandate. This is especially true with Mao. He organized the peasantry to win against Shang Ki Shek and then abused power like the best of em.
    I completely agree with you. It's a real, serious, and even likely danger that the vanguard party will simply usher in a new kind of tyranny that only subjagates those it pretends to free.

    In all honesty, I have no idea how to get around it. The only solution I can think of is to put my trust in hoi polloi, but I see that as akin as allowing children to run free in a factory, or allowing bulls to run free in a China shop.

    Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

  7. #187
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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Patria Antiqua View Post
    I completely agree with you. It's a real, serious, and even likely danger that the vanguard party will simply usher in a new kind of tyranny that only subjagates those it pretends to free.

    In all honesty, I have no idea how to get around it. The only solution I can think of is to put my trust in hoi polloi, but I see that as akin as allowing children to run free in a factory, or allowing bulls to run free in a China shop.

    Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
    I'm not sure what you mean. You don't trust a society without a state and a market?
    Don't tread on me= Don't tread on my corporate masters

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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    Slavery is an extremely inaccurate term for what you are saying.

    As far as economic mobility goes, it is very high in the US. According to Greg Mankiw in Principles of Economics:

    "In a typical 10 year period, about one in four families falls below the poverty line for at least one year. Yet fewer than 3% of families are poor for 8 or more years...If a father earn 20 percent above his generations average income, his son will most likely earn 8% above his generations average income. There is only a small correlation between the income of a grandfather and the income of a grandson...only one in five millionaires inherited their fortunes."
    The ability to move from fieldhand to house-slave is no ability I'm interested in.

  9. #189
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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    yeah, I see Haymarket and Patria as the Black Knights
    I'm your king.

    We'll I didnt vote for you.
    Don't tread on me= Don't tread on my corporate masters

  10. #190
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    Re: Tentative agreement reached on tax cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    You need to read up on the type of logic he espouses..Wage slavery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    And that is a poor analogy, if we are discussing things seriously. If you just want to tell me about how you hate work, whatever, but if you are actually serious I disagree.

    From your link:

    "Since slavery was abolished, human earning power is forbidden by law to be capitalized. A man is not even free to sell himself; he must rent himself at a wage." - Paul Samuelson

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