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CBS News Poll: Most Oppose GOP Tax Plan

My error again, responding to off topic posts. That has to stop. Were I not sick today I wouldn't be here. Merry Christmas!

I hope you feel better. Merry Christmas.
 
I suggest you read what you type before posting it, then you might save your credibility. Merry Christmas! As for my Christian belief system, you have that partially right, it IS mine and millions and millions of others and the fact that it seems to bother you so much makes that belief system well worth it.

Prosperity Christianity is not really Christianity. I too am a Christian. My post addressed your statement that the only thing we worry about is how much people make. I simply refuted that. BTW, a lot of Dems own businesses. Especially those who grew up Midwest Catholic (I am no longer Catholic). Why would you think only cons are prosperous?
 
Could you explain how all fifty states can undercut each other with aid to corporations, tax breaks, regulatory breaks and other forms of corporate welfare and all be successful at the same time in this approach.

Very simple, the pie keeps getting bigger and bigger. This isn't a zero sum game like liberals want to claim and we are a long, long ways from maxing out. It seems that you look at tax breaks as an expense, when actually tax breaks are assets to the community. They bring in companies, more taxpayers, more charitable giving and that can happen in every state in the country. Here is what the govt funds through our taxes, compare that to what the state funds then tell me we need the current size of govt.

2010 Budget

Expenses

Defense 696.1
International Affairs 45.2
Gen. Science, Space 30.9
Energy 11.5
Natural resources/env 41.6
Agriculture 23.2
Commerce -82.9
Transportation 92.5
Community Dev 24.5
Education/Train/Social 125.1
Health 369
Medicare 451.6
Income Security 624
Social Security 706.7
Veterans Benefits 108.4
Justice 55.2
General Govt. 18.1
Net Interest 196.9


Total 3537.6
 
LOL, by what standards? Budget deficit, state debt, tax rates, unemployment? You really don't seem to know what is going on in your state. Apparently a lot more people disagreed with you at the Nov 2 elections. How is that hope and change working out for you?

Isn't Ill. also one of the most corrupt states in the country?
 
Prosperity Christianity is not really Christianity. I too am a Christian. My post addressed your statement that the only thing we worry about is how much people make. I simply refuted that. BTW, a lot of Dems own businesses. Especially those who grew up Midwest Catholic (I am no longer Catholic). Why would you think only cons are prosperous?

You are the one that told me how wealthy you are and I stated I didn't care. Conservatives don't care how much someone else makes but the fact that liberals continue to create victims and dependency shows that they do. Without victims or dependents there wouldn't be any liberals. Without victims and dependents there would still be conservatives. If liberals don't care about how much money someone else makes why the obsession with taxes on the rich? Why do liberals continue to demonize the rich and those evil corporations that employ people, contribute to the community, and pay dividends to shareholders many of whom are elderly. If liberals don't care about how much someone makes why are they trying to tell business what to pay its workers, what benefits to charge, and then simply take revenue from those businesses to redistribute to someone else.

There are a lot of rich liberals who seem to have forgotten how they made theirs and now are doing their best to destroy the system that created that economic system that generated that wealth. Too many think with their hearts instead of their brain. Individual wealth creation is good, govt. taking that wealth and redistributing it is bad. That is a state and local community issue, not a Federal issue. Creating dependence is all that liberal social programs do. It destroys incentive and individuality which makes people lazy and dependent.
 
This leg humping thing of yours borders on a very unhealthy sexual fetish. And speaks volumes about the way you think.

I'm trying to picture anything trying to hump a turtles leg. I got nothin'.......
 
Isn't Ill. also one of the most corrupt states in the country?

Yes, it certainly is. I spent a lot of time dealing with Chicago politics and it is indeed one of the most corrupt in the nation.
 
I hope you feel better. Merry Christmas.

Thanks, one of those nasty Winter colds, one day the temperature is 75 and the next it is 50. Body cannot handle that drastic change. Hope you are having a Merry Christmas
 
Very simple, the pie keeps getting bigger and bigger. This isn't a zero sum game like liberals want to claim and we are a long, long ways from maxing out. It seems that you look at tax breaks as an expense, when actually tax breaks are assets to the community. They bring in companies, more taxpayers, more charitable giving and that can happen in every state in the country. Here is what the govt funds through our taxes, compare that to what the state funds then tell me we need the current size of govt.

2010 Budget

Expenses

Defense 696.1
International Affairs 45.2
Gen. Science, Space 30.9
Energy 11.5
Natural resources/env 41.6
Agriculture 23.2
Commerce -82.9
Transportation 92.5
Community Dev 24.5
Education/Train/Social 125.1
Health 369
Medicare 451.6
Income Security 624
Social Security 706.7
Veterans Benefits 108.4
Justice 55.2
General Govt. 18.1
Net Interest 196.9


Total 3537.6

Liberals are pushing for plus-sum games. In my experience, cons are in favor of zero sum games: I win, you lose. What we are saying is, we all can win. You don't have to "beat" someone to gain. Like our relationships with other nations, for instance. Our trade agreements are plus-sum. Both sides benefit.

I think what is kinda weird for me, is that conservatives don't really seem to understand dems at all. It's like some weird caricature painted by every righty talker on the planet. But this is simply not the case.
 
You are the one that told me how wealthy you are and I stated I didn't care. Conservatives don't care how much someone else makes but the fact that liberals continue to create victims and dependency shows that they do. Without victims or dependents there wouldn't be any liberals. Without victims and dependents there would still be conservatives. If liberals don't care about how much money someone else makes why the obsession with taxes on the rich? Why do liberals continue to demonize the rich and those evil corporations that employ people, contribute to the community, and pay dividends to shareholders many of whom are elderly. If liberals don't care about how much someone makes why are they trying to tell business what to pay its workers, what benefits to charge, and then simply take revenue from those businesses to redistribute to someone else.

There are a lot of rich liberals who seem to have forgotten how they made theirs and now are doing their best to destroy the system that created that economic system that generated that wealth. Too many think with their hearts instead of their brain. Individual wealth creation is good, govt. taking that wealth and redistributing it is bad. That is a state and local community issue, not a Federal issue. Creating dependence is all that liberal social programs do. It destroys incentive and individuality which makes people lazy and dependent.

Wow, that's a whole lot of absolutes and motive application that I really don't feel you have access to. I respect your thoughts as opinions. But they may or may not be facts. The psychology of every individual is different.

Now, seriously, you do know Democrats own business, work as hard as you do, and actually succeed at life, right? There are even Democrats who have never used the safety net - many many Democrats. Success and hardship are not dictated by party affiliation or political ideology, right?

As for income, I think I may have gotten you and another mixed up. Sorry.
 
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There are only some many businesses in the USA today. That indeed is an exact and measurable number. It is not infinite or theoretical.

If all fifty states decided to opt for a strategy to give tax breaks to corporations, to give donations and money to corporations, to waive regulations for corporations, how could they all then be successful in their strategy?

It only stands to reason that if a corporation is going to line up fifty states and take the position that we will set up shop in the state which gives us the most, there will only be one state which gets them and the other 49 will NOT get that plant or headquarters or whatever it may be.

How do you then get 50 successful states using this strategy when only one will win?
 
Liberals are pushing for plus-sum games. In my experience, cons are in favor of zero sum games: I win, you lose. What we are saying is, we all can win. You don't have to "beat" someone to gain. Like our relationships with other nations, for instance. Our trade agreements are plus-sum. Both sides benefit.

I think what is kinda weird for me, is that conservatives don't really seem to understand dems at all. It's like some weird caricature painted by every righty talker on the planet. But this is simply not the case.

Let me enlighten you since you won't do your own research. I grew up a Democrat, spent almost 30 years as a Democrat. I was always a Conservative and the Democrat Party had room for Conservatives. Not so with Carter and then for the last 30 years. It appears that you bought into the ideology of the "old" Democrat Party, not the party of today. How do people win by staying on the taxpayer dole for 99 months? How do people win when they work their entire lives only to have the fruits of their labor taken by the govt? Name for me one Democrat social program that cost what it was supposed to cost, did what it was supposed to do, solved a problem, and went away? Just one!

Conservatives don't care what you make or how much you have as there is room in the upper income level for all. It just takes drive, initiative, and risk taking. I spent 35 yrs in the business world and did more to raise people up than any social program that liberals have created. All are fat, bloated programs run by bureaucrats whose power is dependent on the people they supposedly help. Career politicians remain in their job because of buying votes through their return of taxpayer dollars t their communities. In 1965 we had a 250 billion dollar Federal Budget, today it is 3.6 trillion dollars. A 3.6 trillion dollar govt. promotes fraud and abuse that liberals always want to hide. All that spending in the name of compassion has yet to really produce compassionate results which by my definition means they raised people up instead of keeping them dependent.

I employed thousands over my career, many I had to fire and many that I promoted into management positions. I taught people how to run a business and how to be responsible for themselves and their family. I retired 7 years ago and previous employees still keep in touch. That tells it all. I know human nature and how people respond to handouts. Our society today is filled with dependent people who continue to re-elect the same politicians over and over again. When 47% of the people don't pay any Federal Income Taxes is it surprising that they don't have a lot of concern about raising the taxes on the 53% that do? Think about it. Merry Christmas!
 
There are only some many businesses in the USA today. That indeed is an exact and measurable number. It is not infinite or theoretical.

If all fifty states decided to opt for a strategy to give tax breaks to corporations, to give donations and money to corporations, to waive regulations for corporations, how could they all then be successful in their strategy?

It only stands to reason that if a corporation is going to line up fifty states and take the position that we will set up shop in the state which gives us the most, there will only be one state which gets them and the other 49 will NOT get that plant or headquarters or whatever it may be.

How do you then get 50 successful states using this strategy when only one will win?

It is easy to point out the businesses that abuse the system but not so easy to point out that these are the exception rather than the rule. The large corporations in this country constitute aboout 20% of the businesses thus there is plenty of room for those 80% to succeed. There are limited businesses that can relocate to states, no question, but there are 308 million people in this country with more than 16 million unemployed. We are a long ways from getting to the problem you claim will happen.

Instead of being part of the problem, why not be part of the solution? As I understand it you are going to work for a politician in D.C. Ask that politician what his role is and if it anything like creating equal outcome, run. If it is anything like what can I do for someone else vs. what can I do helping someone else learn how to care for themselves, run.
 
A truly open mind is full of empty space that can be filled with anything. In a truly open mind there is no discipline, no rules, and thus no order, a true liberal utopia that never exists. Merry Christmas!

There is also the chance of your brains falling out when your mind is too open.
 
There are only some many businesses in the USA today. That indeed is an exact and measurable number. It is not infinite or theoretical.

If all fifty states decided to opt for a strategy to give tax breaks to corporations, to give donations and money to corporations, to waive regulations for corporations, how could they all then be successful in their strategy?

It only stands to reason that if a corporation is going to line up fifty states and take the position that we will set up shop in the state which gives us the most, there will only be one state which gets them and the other 49 will NOT get that plant or headquarters or whatever it may be.

How do you then get 50 successful states using this strategy when only one will win?

In order for this logic to track, one must believe in the preservation of the union. This is what liberals and the left in general do not understand, I think: States rights breaks the union, making each state a semi-nation state and they WANT this so bad they'll destroy the country over it. The Federal Government would be viewed almost as a foreign concern. It ends up being the EU. Every state for themselves. They want a new confederacy, plain and simple. That, or a return to the unworkable Articles of Confederation.

THIS is what they ultimately want. It is why they attempt to tear down when in office, rather than build. Cutting funding to states and vital services is how they make programs fail, ultimately claiming it was the program's fault. Watch how they will attack health care: they will starve the beast by trying to defund it, then declare it a failure. But then, they claim SSI and Medicare are failures, too. They've been after those a long time and will never hide the fact they want those programs gone.

If the jobs go to Texas and nowhere else, Texas would view this as a very good thing. Destruction of another state's economy, as in business, would be good. It eliminates competition.
 
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There is also the chance of your brains falling out when your mind is too open.

that must explai .... nah ... too easy and its Christmas. ;)
 
On Christmas Day I am not going to get into this with you as all liberals have to stick together no matter how wrong they are. It truly is a cult.

Duh-that's why they are known as "collectivists"
 
It is easy to point out the businesses that abuse the system but not so easy to point out that these are the exception rather than the rule. The large corporations in this country constitute aboout 20% of the businesses thus there is plenty of room for those 80% to succeed. There are limited businesses that can relocate to states, no question, but there are 308 million people in this country with more than 16 million unemployed. We are a long ways from getting to the problem you claim will happen.

Instead of being part of the problem, why not be part of the solution? As I understand it you are going to work for a politician in D.C. Ask that politician what his role is and if it anything like creating equal outcome, run. If it is anything like what can I do for someone else vs. what can I do helping someone else learn how to care for themselves, run.

Seems like you used a lot of words to simply say
'that is not a successful strategy that all 50 states can use and many will be losers.'

I would very much like to be part of the solution. I suspect you would not like the solution. You don't like politicians creating predetermined outcomes for business? Fine. Lets have one national policy that no unit of government can create winners or losers. Lets have one national policy which prevents any level of government from creating winners and losers by doling out tax breaks to one company over others who pay those taxes thereby giving them unfair advantage over other companies in the marketplace. Lets have one national policy which prevents government from creating winners and losers by barring any level of government from giving corporate welfare or payments to corporations or businesses thereby giving them an unfair advantage over other companies in the marketplace. Let us have one national policy with prevents government from creating winners and losers by waiving regulatory regulations for some companies giving them an unfair advantage in the marketplace.

Do you join me in that Conservative?
 
Duh-that's why they are known as "collectivists"

yeah right ... you righties never ever ever stick up for each other here do you?

gimme a freakin break and be honest..... at least on Christmas of all days.
 
In order for this logic to track, one must believe in the preservation of the union. This is what liberals and the left in general do not understand, I think: States rights breaks the union, making each state a semi-nation state and they WANT this so bad they'll destroy the country over it. The Federal Government would be viewed almost as a foreign concern. It ends up being the EU. Every state for themselves. They want a new confederacy, plain and simple. That, or a return to the unworkable Articles of Confederation.

THIS is what they ultimately want. It is why they attempt to tear down when in office, rather than build. Cutting funding to states and vital services is how they make programs fail, ultimately claiming it was the program's fault. Watch how they will attack health care: they will starve the beast by trying to defund it, then declare it a failure. But then, they claim SSI and Medicare are failures, too. They've been after those a long time and will never hide the fact they want those programs gone.

If the jobs go to Texas and nowhere else, Texas would view this as a very good thing. Destruction of another state's economy, as in business, would be good. It eliminates competition.

This ignores history and the concept our Founders used to create our govt, a small central govt. with the power to the states where it belongs. That is closer to the people. Ever notice that most of the smaller states are red states? why don't you ask yourself why? Ask yourself why the major cities with all their fraud, waste, abuse remain Democrat? The country isn't going to explode with states rights, instead it will remove the power from the Federal Govt that promotes the waste, fraud, and abuse by its mere size.

Too many liberals ignore the concept of states rights and use your argument all the time all in an attempt to promote a larger central govt. Read the Constitution and you will find what a marvelous document that really is.
 
yeah right ... you righties never ever ever stick up for each other here do you?

gimme a freakin break and be honest..... at least on Christmas of all days.

Truth doesn't take holidays off
 
Conservative said he does not want government creating winners and losers. He advocates that I be part of the solution. So I asked him this

You don't like politicians creating predetermined outcomes for business? Fine. Lets have one national policy that no unit of government can create winners or losers. Lets have one national policy which prevents any level of government from creating winners and losers by doling out tax breaks to one company over others who pay those taxes thereby giving them unfair advantage over other companies in the marketplace. Lets have one national policy which prevents government from creating winners and losers by barring any level of government from giving corporate welfare or payments to corporations or businesses thereby giving them an unfair advantage over other companies in the marketplace. Let us have one national policy with prevents government from creating winners and losers by waiving regulatory regulations for some companies giving them an unfair advantage in the marketplace.

Do you join me in that Conservative?

his answer is

This ignores history and the concept our Founders used to create our govt, a small central govt. with the power to the states where it belongs.

You seem to be backtracking on your own position and now saying 'NO I still want governments to have those power to create winners and losers'
 
Truth doesn't take holidays off

So you righties NO DOT stick up for each other here as I said you do?

Its only one way or the other so think carefully.
 
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