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Thread: CBS News Poll: Most Oppose GOP Tax Plan

  1. #291
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    Re: CBS News Poll: Most Oppose GOP Tax Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Again with the smug, self righteous snobbery painting yourself as the informed elite above the unwashed masses. This is indeed pathological with you.
    do you pretend to be a psychologist as well as a patriot?



  2. #292
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    Re: CBS News Poll: Most Oppose GOP Tax Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Then you should have written what you actually wanted to say -- whatever that is -- because what your words mean is plain as day. You said if we ever lived in a society based on individual liberty -- and that was probably a myth -- that world is dead and gone and people like me who think we do need to get with the times. There's no other way to read your words. Your problem.
    Actually what I said was

    If we once had such a society, that day is long dead and buried. But the modern libertarian romantic fiction of what we were is just that - a romantic fiction that might as well be King Arthur and his noble knights. We no longer live in that world with those realities. You either adapt to the changing world or you die and are eaten.

    You seem to confuse several things in an attempt to turn what I said into a Frankenstein monster version of it in a pathetic attempt to score points with those who worship before the same altar you do.

    The days of 1776 and 1787 are indeed dead and gone and that is beyond dispute. We are no longer a nation of 4 million farmers and small merchants. We are no longer isolated from the rest of the world. We are no longer huddled along a rather narrow strip of land along the eastern seaboard. We no longer are a inconvenient backwater that means little to the rest of the world.

    The idea of liberty above all is a myth. It was a fiction. Slave owners writing flowery statements about the equality of man and the rights of men. What garbage and hypocrisy. The America that libertarians want to believe existed back in 1787 never really existed for many and certainly has not existed for a long long time.

    That is the reality of it all.

    I did write what I wanted to say and said it. Your problem, as before, is you see yourself as some sort of Star Chamber prosecutor who thinks he is clever and has a witness under the harsh light and can dispatch him with a mere quip or witticism.

    You keep ignoring the reality that nobody here believes in abolishing liberty or the complete abolishing of government. All any of us are doing is arguing about is the margins. But such an admission of reality takes the shine of your white knight outfit and makes you just like everybody else with no more moral claim than the rest of us.
    Last edited by haymarket; 12-17-10 at 11:40 PM.
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  3. #293
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    Re: CBS News Poll: Most Oppose GOP Tax Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    do you pretend to be a psychologist as well as a patriot?
    Reading and understand what you write about yourself in post after post after post is not a difficult task.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: CBS News Poll: Most Oppose GOP Tax Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Actually what I said was

    If we once had such a society, that day is long dead and buried. But the modern libertarian romantic fiction of what we were is just that - a romantic fiction that might as well be King Arthur and his noble knights. We no longer live in that world with those realities. You either adapt to the changing world or you die and are eaten.
    Yes, and this was in response to my statement that ours is a society based on individual liberty. (How this is a controversial statement is entirely beyond me. Didn't you claim to be a school teacher at some point?)

    Of course, the problem is that it's YOU who made a "Frankenstein monster" out of what I said and are now projecting that failing onto me. It would be better for you simply to admit it, but you're obviously all in.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  5. #295
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    Re: CBS News Poll: Most Oppose GOP Tax Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Yes, and this was in response to my statement that ours is a society based on individual liberty. (How this is a controversial statement is entirely beyond me. Didn't you claim to be a school teacher at some point?)

    Of course, the problem is that it's YOU who made a "Frankenstein monster" out of what I said and are now projecting that failing onto me. It would be better for you simply to admit it, but you're obviously all in.
    Why you persist in totally and completely twisting this is only for you to know.

    Can you tell me how a society is supposedly founded on individual liberty but keeps some of its people in a condition of slavery which is a basic denial of any sort of liberty?

    You want to believe the hype instead of the reality because the hype serves your modern purposes better than the reality does.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: CBS News Poll: Most Oppose GOP Tax Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Why you persist in totally and completely twisting this is only for you to know.

    Can you tell me how a society is supposedly founded on individual liberty but keeps some of its people in a condition of slavery which is a basic denial of any sort of liberty?

    You want to believe the hype instead of the reality because the hype serves your modern purposes better than the reality does.
    You're going to have to make up your mind.

    When I say that YOU say us being a society based on individual liberty is a myth, you go ape****, saying I'm twisting your words.

    And here, you say it once again in no uncertain terms, again somehow saying I'm twisting words by claiming we are a society based on individual liberty.

    So, I'm twisting your words when I say you deny we're a society based on individual liberty, and I'm also twisting things by claiming we are a society based on individual liberty.

    You've confused yourself beyond all recognition -- and it's pretty damn funny.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: CBS News Poll: Most Oppose GOP Tax Plan

    You need a detailed flow chart to make sense of what you think you are saying. It would make a major league box score look simple. But this is not the first time you have attempted this and it seems to make sense to you, at least in your own mind.

    Can you tell me how a society is supposedly founded on individual liberty but keeps some of its people in a condition of slavery which is a basic denial of any sort of liberty?
    Last edited by haymarket; 12-18-10 at 12:03 AM.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: CBS News Poll: Most Oppose GOP Tax Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Can you tell me how a society is supposedly founded on individual liberty but keeps some of its people in a condition of slavery which is a basic denial of any sort of liberty?
    Then it is as I said, and you deny we're a society founded on individual liberty.

    Whew. We've got that one settled. Of course, it was clear when you posted it the first time, but at least now you've manned up to it. Yet, you're most likely still going to try to deny it somehow.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: CBS News Poll: Most Oppose GOP Tax Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Then it is as I said, and you deny we're a society founded on individual liberty.

    Whew. We've got that one settled. Of course, it was clear when you posted it the first time, but at least now you've manned up to it. Yet, you're most likely still going to try to deny it somehow.
    two different points here that can exist together without contradicting each other

    1- America gave some of its people a bit more individual liberty than other societies did -

    2- American denied some of its people even a tiny bit of liberty keeping them in slavery while proclaiming pious platitudes about equality and liberty for all

    The America that existed at that time, for both groups, is dead and gone and not returning. So for modern libertarians to wallow in this idea of America being founded on liberty is not as clear cut or as self evident as some would have it appear. The reality is not the hype. And the reality does not make for good bumper sticker cliches.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: CBS News Poll: Most Oppose GOP Tax Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    two different points here that can exist together without contradicting each other

    1- America gave some of its people a bit more individual liberty than other societies did -

    2- American denied some of its people even a tiny bit of liberty keeping them in slavery while proclaiming pious platitudes about equality and liberty for all

    The America that existed at that time, for both groups, is dead and gone and not returning. So for modern libertarians to wallow in this idea of America being founded on liberty is not as clear cut or as self evident as some would have it appear. The reality is not the hype. And the reality does not make for good bumper sticker cliches.
    Then you continue to confirm exactly what I said. You're so confused, you don't even know what you're arguing against (or for) anymore.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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