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CBS News Poll: Most Oppose GOP Tax Plan

TurtleDude said:
oh the drama
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Interesting, isn't? Wonder what rule I broke unless it is the one which states, "never confuse a liberal with facts and offer the sites to verify those facts?" Actually that one is mine.
 
Kev316 said:
There it is. True colors. Finally some honesty. Racist states righter. Knew it.
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Is this coming from the guy who just whined about Conservative talking about him? Racist? I'd get rid of the idiotic war on drugs which causes so many black males to have criminal records. I am reporting you for calling me a racist.
 
TurtleDude said:
Is this coming from the guy who just whined about Conservative talking about him? Racist? I'd get rid of the idiotic war on drugs which causes so many black males to have criminal records. I am reporting you for calling me a racist.
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Okay. Enjoy. I did.
 
TurtleDude said:
Is this coming from the guy who just whined about Conservative talking about him? Racist? I'd get rid of the idiotic war on drugs which causes so many black males to have criminal records. I am reporting you for calling me a racist.
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Funny, first warning I got was because I said something to one person about another. Didn't even name names. I learned from you guys.
 
haymarket said:
Actually I was referring to most of the political changes and reforms of the last 110 years that started with the Progressive Era of T. Roosevelt. But I think you knew that.
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1) the massive expansion of the federal government under the New Deal and Great Society and the increase of the income tax from 6% to 90% at some times

2) the idiotic war on drugs based on an unconstitutional expansion of the commerce clause

3) federal meddling into education, affirmative action, and other idiocy that has watered down our educational system

4) massive income redistribution programs designed to make people dependent on the federal government and one party in particular.

you call those things progress and reforms. I call them a cancer that is ruining this country
 
TurtleDude said:
1) the massive expansion of the federal government under the New Deal and Great Society and the increase of the income tax from 6% to 90% at some times

2) the idiotic war on drugs based on an unconstitutional expansion of the commerce clause

3) federal meddling into education, affirmative action, and other idiocy that has watered down our educational system

4) massive income redistribution programs designed to make people dependent on the federal government and one party in particular.

you call those things progress and reforms. I call them a cancer that is ruining this country
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on 1- obviously we disagree and much as two people could on that issue

on 2- I am not familiar with this 'war on drugs". What war? I know of no actual war on drugs.

on 3- I wish the feds would stop meddling in education and simply adopt a national system like the Japanese and nearly every other nation has that people here constantly cry about beating our kids in standardized tests

on 4 - if income is being redistributed its the rich who are getting richer - yeah - I can get behind efforts to stop that.
 
haymarket said:
on 1- obviously we disagree and much as two people could on that issue

on 2- I am not familiar with this 'war on drugs". What war? I know of no actual war on drugs.

on 3- I wish the feds would stop meddling in education and simply adopt a national system like the Japanese and nearly every other nation has that people here constantly cry about beating our kids in standardized tests

on 4 - if income is being redistributed its the rich who are getting richer - yeah - I can get behind efforts to stop that.
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1) true-you want a welfare-socialist society-I do not. You also do not have any use for the boundaries established by the founders on the federal government, I do

2) I am amazed that you are unaware of this term that is used in the news constantly

3) Education at the primary and secondary level is a state matter pure and simple

4) The rich making money is not income redistribution. The trillions the government has given to the "poor" and middle class is AND ALL IT HAS DONE is to create millions of dependent addicts
 
TurtleDude said:
1) true-you want a welfare-socialist society-I do not. You also do not have any use for the boundaries established by the founders on the federal government, I do

2) I am amazed that you are unaware of this term that is used in the news constantly

3) Education at the primary and secondary level is a state matter pure and simple

4) The rich making money is not income redistribution. The trillions the government has given to the "poor" and middle class is AND ALL IT HAS DONE is to create millions of dependent addicts
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1- actually I do not want one person on welfare. I would want a society where all can make a contribution and support themselves. As to the boundaries of the federal government, I have no problem with them but do not treat America today as if it is America of 1787.
2- I am being a smart ass on this topic. When I think of WAR I think of WW2. A complete all out balls-to-the-walls effort which totally mobilizes society in one common purpose which is achieved over all else. I was in New Orleans last week and spent a day at the excellent World War 2 Museum. Since I taught both US History and Government for three decades there was little brand new there for me. But looking at the exhibits on the home front and how everything was controlled down to three gallons of gas per week and centers to collect cooking fat for the war effort, it hit home what real WAR actually is. The so called WAR on drugs is a bad joke.
3- as a people we are going to have to decide which is more important - tens of thousands of different school systems, some of which do a great job and some of which do a poor job and a national plan for education which really and truly leaves no child behind due to local problems. We can still have states and locals administer a national curriculum but we badly need one.
4- the Rich - it is what it is and what it is is the rich getting richer while the middle class loses ground. that does not make for a stable society and even though I tease you about your McMansion and wealth, you have to know that a truly stable society cannot afford a really wide gap between the rich and everyone else. The health of our nation is not measured only by the top 1%. Henry Ford knew that when he put in his five dollar day.
 
The middle class is losing ground because of several things-the rich not being taxed enough has nothing to do with it.

Making drugs illegal is a stupid waste of resources and freedom
 
Moderator's Warning:
People. Focus on the topic, stop snipping at each other.
 
haymarket said:
1- actually I do not want one person on welfare. I would want a society where all can make a contribution and support themselves. As to the boundaries of the federal government, I have no problem with them but do not treat America today as if it is America of 1787.
2- I am being a smart ass on this topic. When I think of WAR I think of WW2. A complete all out balls-to-the-walls effort which totally mobilizes society in one common purpose which is achieved over all else. I was in New Orleans last week and spent a day at the excellent World War 2 Museum. Since I taught both US History and Government for three decades there was little brand new there for me. But looking at the exhibits on the home front and how everything was controlled down to three gallons of gas per week and centers to collect cooking fat for the war effort, it hit home what real WAR actually is. The so called WAR on drugs is a bad joke.
3- as a people we are going to have to decide which is more important - tens of thousands of different school systems, some of which do a great job and some of which do a poor job and a national plan for education which really and truly leaves no child behind due to local problems. We can still have states and locals administer a national curriculum but we badly need one.
4- the Rich - it is what it is and what it is is the rich getting richer while the middle class loses ground. that does not make for a stable society and even though I tease you about your McMansion and wealth, you have to know that a truly stable society cannot afford a really wide gap between the rich and everyone else. The health of our nation is not measured only by the top 1%. Henry Ford knew that when he put in his five dollar day.
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haymarket, are you part of the group that opposed extension of the Bush tax cuts? It does seem that liberals are pretty naive when it comes to reality and individual responsibility. It seems that every liberal I know judges people based upon their own stereotypes based upon themselves and ignore that there are a large percentage of people that abuse the system and will take it for every penny they can get. We have thousands in prison, thousands that would steal from you or your business, and abuse their bodies with drugs and alcohol sending you the bill.

It would be great if everyone was like you, but they aren't. What do you do with people who won't work? Think we need 99 plus weeks of unemployment checks from the taxpayers? How do you think those Americans of 1787 made it?

Think Americans today could survive living like those Americans did during WWII. People today riot when they don't get their Michael Jordan shoes or IPhones. My father was at Pearl Harbor in the Navy on Dec. 7, 1941 and before that worked in the CCC camps of Oregon for a $1 a day sending .50 of it home to his Mom and Dad. He knew what suffering was all about as did his family. Americans today have an entitlement mentality and when millions of Americans have no problem taking income from one class and giving it to someone else that promotes an "I want mine" attitude which isn't what this country was built on.

We live in a PC society today and the more the Federal Govt. gets involved the more PC society becomes. Education belongs at the state level, not the national level. NCLB was an attempt at national standards. How has that worked out? The biggest problem in education today is the top heavy administrative costs as well the unions whose demands never focus on results.

I keep hearing that the rich are getting richer. My question is what is preventing people from becoming rich? Liberalism has done more to destroy incentive than anything done in history and that starts with the New Deal and continued on with the Great Society. The pie is out there for anyone that wants a pie and with the right effort, initiative, and drive, they can get a bigger piece. I am living proof of that.

Until Americans understand that personal income is just that and it is the people's money before it goes to the government nothing is going to change. How do you think the 47% of the people who don't pay a dime in Federal Income taxes think about the extension of the Bush tax cuts? The last election gave me some hope as more and more are getting tired of the class envy and placing blame. Americans better wake up and naive liberals need to lead the way. Stop judging people by the way you want to judge them and start judging them by the way they are, individuals who have different priorities and different morals.
 
Conservative said:
haymarket, are you part of the group that opposed extension of the Bush tax cuts? It does seem that liberals are pretty naive when it comes to reality and individual responsibility. It seems that every liberal I know judges people based upon their own stereotypes based upon themselves and ignore that there are a large percentage of people that abuse the system and will take it for every penny they can get. We have thousands in prison, thousands that would steal from you or your business, and abuse their bodies with drugs and alcohol sending you the bill.

It would be great if everyone was like you, but they aren't. What do you do with people who won't work? Think we need 99 plus weeks of unemployment checks from the taxpayers? How do you think those Americans of 1787 made it?

Think Americans today could survive living like those Americans did during WWII. People today riot when they don't get their Michael Jordan shoes or IPhones. My father was at Pearl Harbor in the Navy on Dec. 7, 1941 and before that worked in the CCC camps of Oregon for a $1 a day sending .50 of it home to his Mom and Dad. He knew what suffering was all about as did his family. Americans today have an entitlement mentality and when millions of Americans have no problem taking income from one class and giving it to someone else that promotes an "I want mine" attitude which isn't what this country was built on.

We live in a PC society today and the more the Federal Govt. gets involved the more PC society becomes. Education belongs at the state level, not the national level. NCLB was an attempt at national standards. How has that worked out? The biggest problem in education today is the top heavy administrative costs as well the unions whose demands never focus on results.

I keep hearing that the rich are getting richer. My question is what is preventing people from becoming rich? Liberalism has done more to destroy incentive than anything done in history and that starts with the New Deal and continued on with the Great Society. The pie is out there for anyone that wants a pie and with the right effort, initiative, and drive, they can get a bigger piece. I am living proof of that.

Until Americans understand that personal income is just that and it is the people's money before it goes to the government nothing is going to change. How do you think the 47% of the people who don't pay a dime in Federal Income taxes think about the extension of the Bush tax cuts? The last election gave me some hope as more and more are getting tired of the class envy and placing blame. Americans better wake up and naive liberals need to lead the way. Stop judging people by the way you want to judge them and start judging them by the way they are, individuals who have different priorities and different morals.
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welfare socialism is the newest opiate of the masses. At one time it was God, now its Big Brother
 
TurtleDude said:
welfare socialism is the newest opiate of the masses. At one time it was God, now its Big Brother
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While working I had a payroll of over 1200 employees with a mixture of hourly and salaried employees. My managers made 45K a year plus a bonus that could put them over 80k a year. The Hourly employees started at $8 an hour with 6 month reviews and pay raises if they qualify. They also had bonus opportunities of over $200 a month and I always promoted from within for manager positions. All employees including part time had the opportunity for healthcare in which I paid 80% of the premiums. Since most of the group were younger thus invincible less than 50% chose to participate.

In spite of this I had employees steal from the company with one employee stealing over $75000. These are the people liberals refuse to acknowledge exist and are the ones they want tax dollars to help. They are also the ones that will sit on their butts for the maximum amount of time drawing unemployment checks as no one will hire them. Unfortunately there weren't just a few like that. Guess haymarket wants them to have further taxpayer assistance.

The only thing preventing them from advancing and making good money was them as the opportunities were there. My turnover percentage was about 100% a year meaning about 1200 new hires each year which required training costs. So all isn't glory in the business world.
 
Conservative said:
While working I had a payroll of over 1200 employees with a mixture of hourly and salaried employees. My managers made 45K a year plus a bonus that could put them over 80k a year. The Hourly employees started at $8 an hour with 6 month reviews and pay raises if they qualify. They also had bonus opportunities of over $200 a month and I always promoted from within for manager positions. All employees including part time had the opportunity for healthcare in which I paid 80% of the premiums. Since most of the group were younger thus invincible less than 50% chose to participate.

In spite of this I had employees steal from the company with one employee stealing over $75000. These are the people liberals refuse to acknowledge exist and are the ones they want tax dollars to help. They are also the ones that will sit on their butts for the maximum amount of time drawing unemployment checks as no one will hire them. Unfortunately there weren't just a few like that. Guess haymarket wants them to have further taxpayer assistance.

The only thing preventing them from advancing and making good money was them as the opportunities were there. My turnover percentage was about 100% a year meaning about 1200 new hires each year which required training costs. So all isn't glory in the business world.
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100% turnover? Doesn't sound like a liberal problem. Sounds like a problem with the company itself.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
100% turnover? Doesn't sound like a liberal problem. Sounds like a problem with the company itself.
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Hardly, a lot of young people working their way through college and moving on to bigger and better things. Some actually stayed on after college or took other jobs in the company. 100% turnover isn't bad if it is the right kind of turnover and for the right reasons. $8 an hour starting pay for hourly employees is over minimum wage, $200+ in bonus dollars a month, holiday pay and overtime, opportunities for advancement, college reimbursement, health care. So something wrong with the company? $45K a year plus bonus to 80K plus benefits and a liberal 401k plan for managers sound bad to you?
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
100% turnover? Doesn't sound like a liberal problem. Sounds like a problem with the company itself.
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A grocery store especially one that seemingly employeed alot of young people will have a very high turnover as students tend to change jobs often. Also given limited opportunities for career development, (a store only needs so many managers or assistant managers) skilled employees would also leave on a regular basis to seek better paying jobs


Although 100% turnover is I believe quite high for any grocery store. I would expect that level in fast food places more then a well run grocery store
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
A grocery store especially one that seemingly employeed alot of young people will have a very high turnover as students tend to change jobs often. Also given limited opportunities for career development, (a store only needs so many managers or assistant managers) skilled employees would also leave on a regular basis to seek better paying jobs


Although 100% turnover is I believe quite high for any grocery store. I would expect that level in fast food places more then a well run grocery store
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It wasn't a grocery store but notice how individuals immediately question the company. Obviously people who never ran a business don't understand that all these employees get paid with the owner the last one, getting what is left over. Guess that is fair in the liberal world
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
A grocery store especially one that seemingly employeed alot of young people will have a very high turnover as students tend to change jobs often. Also given limited opportunities for career development, (a store only needs so many managers or assistant managers) skilled employees would also leave on a regular basis to seek better paying jobs


Although 100% turnover is I believe quite high for any grocery store. I would expect that level in fast food places more then a well run grocery store
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I wouldn't expect 100% turnover even at a grocery store or a fast food place. High turnover, certainly, because of the nature of the job, but not 100%. My brother's been working at a grocery store for 9 years. I know a couple of people who have been there that long or longer.
 
Conservative said:
It wasn't a grocery store but notice how individuals immediately question the company. Obviously people who never ran a business don't understand that all these employees get paid with the owner the last one, getting what is left over. Guess that is fair in the liberal world
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Firstly, you are assuming that I have never run a business. 100% turnover... that's outrageous and says something about the company. And, if you want to go the partisan hack route, a CONSERVATIVE ran a business that was crummy enough that every single employee left within the year. Perhaps if CONSERVATIVES had a bit more concern about their employees that wouldn't happen.

Now, do you want to discuss the topic without your normal partisan hackery, or do you want to continue this? Because if you do, I'll gladly keep going.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
I wouldn't expect 100% turnover even at a grocery store or a fast food place. High turnover, certainly, because of the nature of the job, but not 100%. My brother's been working at a grocery store for 9 years. I know a couple of people who have been there that long or longer.
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Bet if you check with the owner there turnover is quite high as well but with 1200 employees in 140 locations the turnover is high as is the promotion rate. There is also a lot of forced turnover due to theft, absenteeism, or other personal factors. This was a second job for some, second income for others, part time for others and all that factored in. My question is why do you first question the quality of the company and not the quality of the employee?
 
Conservative said:
It wasn't a grocery store but notice how individuals immediately question the company. Obviously people who never ran a business don't understand that all these employees get paid with the owner the last one, getting what is left over. Guess that is fair in the liberal world
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WTF

I stated that high turnover would be expected at a grocery store due to the people being hired and lack of opportunities for skilled employees and you go on a tangent ranting about Liberals.



And some offense, I strongly doubt you ran a 140 store chain, you do not appear to have the knowledge base to be able to run an operation of that size. Perhaps being the manager of store, but certainly not a 140 store chain
 
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Conservative said:
Bet if you check with the owner there turnover is quite high as well but with 1200 employees in 140 locations the turnover is high as is the promotion rate. There is also a lot of forced turnover due to theft, absenteeism, or other personal factors. This was a second job for some, second income for others, part time for others and all that factored in. My question is why do you first question the quality of the company and not the quality of the employee?
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If you had said a fast food restaurant with 75% turnover, I would have questioned both. 100% turnover is outrageous and reflects on the company. Or are you trying to say that every single employee was a problem? That sounds like YOU are blaming everything on the employees and not considering the quality of the company. Perhaps the company should have looked at their hiring practices... considering that 100% of their employees needed to leave after a year because of theft, absenteeism, or other personal issues. Sounds like their Human Resources Department wasn't so great.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
WTF

I stated that high turnover would be expected at a grocery store due to the people being hired and lack of opportunities for skilled employees and you go on a tangent ranting about Liberals.
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It's what he does. He can't accept that if a company has 100% turnover it might have something to do with the company. He'd rather place the blame on some external source rather than placing responsibility where it belongs. I thought conservatives were big on responsibility.
 
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