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Thread: CBS News Poll: Most Oppose GOP Tax Plan

  1. #191
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    Re: CBS News Poll: Most Oppose GOP Tax Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Nominal dollars mean nothing.
    Then don't use nominal dollars


    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    It ain't a few. Their marginal effective is roughly half of mine and I don't make anywhere near what they do. Furthermore, the majority of tax expenditures go towards the rich and corporations. Are the poor going to take advantage of the 30% no limit solar credit? No.
    Still isn't a very convincing case for assessing historical averages. And just to reiterate -- I'm talking about tax burden on taxpayers as a whole, not just a certain class.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Not so sure about that. One of the largest expansion of tax expenditures was Reagan's idea. The earned income tax credit has been the #1 in growth in refundable credits. Reagan appeared to have cut them at the time, only to enact a policy that would cause them to grow down the line.

    How have they changed over time?
    What are you talking about??? What is this mysterious policy Reagan enacted to make tax expenditures "grow down the line"

    It is fact that the Reagan's 1986 tax reform act -- worked out with a democratic congress -- closed tons of loopholes, raised the corporate tax, and reduced individual taxe rates for all Americans, all while maintaining the same level of revenue. It much-simplified the tax process and was the most significant tax reform act of our generation. Yes the EIC was increased, but the cost was offset by eliminating other expenditures.

    Also, from you own link:

    • In the 1970s many tax subsidies were provided as business tax breaks and deductions, which higher-income taxpayers found more valuable. The 1986 tax reform significantly cut back on business preferences, particularly through removal of the investment credit.
    • Nonbusiness tax expenditures-those reported on individual income tax returns that do not also benefit businesses-are higher in 2006 than in 1976 (figure shows sharp decline between 1985 and 1990, after Reagan Tax Reform, re-growth through Clinton years)
    • Exclusions that exempt specific kinds of income from tax constitute a substantial share of tax expenditures. Many exclusions benefit a large percentage of the population, including much of the middle class. Between 1948 and 1982 exclusions doubled, from 12 percent of personal income to 24 percent, before falling off to 19 percent in 2004 (more evidence of historic, high rate of expenditures)

  2. #192
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    Re: CBS News Poll: Most Oppose GOP Tax Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child
    Hard to actually say either way. Each person uses such tax expenditures differently. The only group that would be significantly harmed holding all else equal in terms of the home mortgage deduction would be the middle class.
    Not hard to say at all -- a sudden elimination of tax expenditures is equivalent to a massive tax increase. It's an impossibility. The economy would go into the tank. Not only would people lose their mortgage deductions, they would see huge increases in the cost of health coverage, retirement plans, and medicare.

    The poor who you don't seem to think would be affected would lose the EIC and child tax credit.

    Something like 70% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck. You think people have their asses puckered right now w/r to spending, let's see what happens when your proposal goes through.

    At best, you'd have to offset the elimination of those expenditures with significant tax cuts. I believe Obama's tax commission suggested 92%.

  3. #193
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    Re: CBS News Poll: Most Oppose GOP Tax Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Not hard to say at all -- a sudden elimination of tax expenditures is equivalent to a massive tax increase. It's an impossibility. The economy would go into the tank. Not only would people lose their mortgage deductions, they would see huge increases in the cost of health coverage, retirement plans, and medicare.

    The poor who you don't seem to think would be affected would lose the EIC and child tax credit.

    Something like 70% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck. You think people have their asses puckered right now w/r to spending, let's see what happens when your proposal goes through.

    At best, you'd have to offset the elimination of those expenditures with significant tax cuts. I believe Obama's tax commission suggested 92%.
    Not doubting, or challenging you, but what is the source of 70% living paycheck to paycheck?
    That kind of info should be national news, not to mention national shame...
    Last edited by UtahBill; 12-16-10 at 01:52 PM.
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    Re: CBS News Poll: Most Oppose GOP Tax Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I was the first to note that not taxing the middle class enough creates the mindset that it is the duty of others to worry about and shoulder the burden of paying for the increased government spending--a point you and the rest of the parasite enablers never addressed. What do we get from your posts--you are basically nothing more than a dem party propagandists. I bash the GOP all the time. I also have numerous posts on second amendment and other constitutional matters and all the legal system
    You are claiming to be Independent of political party affiliation, but your Lean reads : "Conservative". In contrast, mine reads Independent, and that is what my voter ID card says too (actualy it say NPA - No Party Affiliation). I go with the issue. I'm with the Democrats on taxation, govt. healthcare, workers' rights, environment, Social Security, Medicare, etc. I'm with the Republicans on immigration, Islamization (AKA Stealth Jihad), homeland security, affirmative action, gun rights, political INcorrectness, etc.

    I wonder one thing, though, TurtleDude. Are you rich ? How much did you net this year ?

    As for how much the rich are paying in taxes, does the name Ughland House mean anything to you ?

    Tax Justice Network: 18,857 firms: one registered address. Ugland House goes to Washington.

  5. #195
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    Re: CBS News Poll: Most Oppose GOP Tax Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Not doubting, or challenging you, but what is the source of 70% living paycheck to paycheck?
    That kind of info should be national news, not to mention national shame...
    No problem, I said "something like" 70% because there isn't real good data on this, and it seems to vary quite a bit - but I think it's a good ballpark figure.

    From 2009:
    Overall, 61 percent said they always or usually live paycheck to paycheck, up from 49 percent in 2008 and 43 percent in 2007.
    More Upper-Income Workers Living Paycheck to Paycheck

    From 2010:
    Today, in 2010, 77% of Americans report living paycheck-to-paycheck
    Daily Kos: State of the Nation

  6. #196
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    Re: CBS News Poll: Most Oppose GOP Tax Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Protectionist View Post
    You are claiming to be Independent of political party affiliation, but your Lean reads : "Conservative". In contrast, mine reads Independent, and that is what my voter ID card says too (actualy it say NPA - No Party Affiliation). I go with the issue. I'm with the Democrats on taxation, govt. healthcare, workers' rights, environment, Social Security, Medicare, etc. I'm with the Republicans on immigration, Islamization (AKA Stealth Jihad), homeland security, affirmative action, gun rights, political INcorrectness, etc.

    I wonder one thing, though, TurtleDude. Are you rich ? How much did you net this year ?

    As for how much the rich are paying in taxes, does the name Ughland House mean anything to you ?

    Tax Justice Network: 18,857 firms: one registered address. Ugland House goes to Washington.
    where did I ever say that. I strongly support the party that is against higher taxes on the highest tax payers. I think the dem party sucks, and the GOP sucks far less. How much did I net last year? ALOT more than most but nothing close to say Bill Gates or LeBron James



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    Re: CBS News Poll: Most Oppose GOP Tax Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    No problem, I said "something like" 70% because there isn't real good data on this, and it seems to vary quite a bit - but I think it's a good ballpark figure.

    From 2009:
    Overall, 61 percent said they always or usually live paycheck to paycheck, up from 49 percent in 2008 and 43 percent in 2007.
    More Upper-Income Workers Living Paycheck to Paycheck

    From 2010:
    Today, in 2010, 77% of Americans report living paycheck-to-paycheck
    Daily Kos: State of the Nation
    That kind of info is why I think that THIS recession will last longer than previous ones, and there will be more lingering effects.
    While our govt leaders fiddle, Rome burns...both parties are guilty of budget deficits and more national debt.

    Who will lead us out of this mess? and how many of us will squeal like stuck pigs when the tax rates go up for everybody...

    I don't see a way out of this now or in the near future. This mess won't be cleaned up for 10 years , my best guess...
    No, I don't have a link, just my gut feeling after reading a lot and comparing this mess to prior messes that happened since 1964...
    Oracle of Utah
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  8. #198
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    Re: CBS News Poll: Most Oppose GOP Tax Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Protectionist View Post
    If I had a home electronics store, and I was given the choice of who should get tax breaks (the poor, the middle class, or the rich), I'd pick the poor (1), the middle class (2), the rich would be my last choice. Why ? They already have a stereo, big screen TV, DVD palyer, etc. It is the poor who don't have (the "have-nots), who will come into the store to buy what they don't have.
    Also, what the rich do spend, they tend to spend a high % of their money outside the country, helping the economies of Europe and the Caribbean, and doing nothing for the American economy except weakening it by removing more cash from it.
    Many of the rich give to charities, universities, hospital wings with their names, and other self-serving investments, but rarely to the poor and needy.

    ricksfolly

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    Re: CBS News Poll: Most Oppose GOP Tax Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by ricksfolly View Post
    Many of the rich give to charities, universities, hospital wings with their names, and other self-serving investments, but rarely to the poor and needy.

    ricksfolly
    MOre silly lies from you. who do you think hospitals help? What a stupid post



  10. #200
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    Re: CBS News Poll: Most Oppose GOP Tax Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by ricksfolly View Post
    Many of the rich give to charities, universities, hospital wings with their names, and other self-serving investments, but rarely to the poor and needy.

    ricksfolly
    If you are giving to charities, isn't that giving to the poor? Certainly when I want to donate to the poor, I write a check to Goodwill, or the Salvation Army. They are in the business of helping the poor, right?
    Oracle of Utah
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