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Nasa to make announcement about possible ET life find on Thursday

Re: NASA to announce "major discovery" that could boost chances of life on other worl

marduc said:
but that does not necessarily point to a second abiogenesis, it could be just adaptations and the substitution of phosphorus with arsenic, it does not mean a rewriting of everything, it is just adapting to utilize an element that is in the same group instead. You find similar in biology (albeit not with such profound implications) with magnesium replacing calcium
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Do I win a prize?
 
According to the following links the annoucement will concern
discovery of a previuosly unknown microbe in Lake Mono CA:

"...which lives with levels of arsenic in its biology that were hitherto
believed impossible (and) significantly broaden(s) the possibility of
what life may be possible on other planets with different environments"

http://www.slashgear...-life-02117300/

http://www.timesonli...icle7040864.ece


I do not think NASA should be budgeted to search for new
life forms on Earth. It has plenty of work to do making sure
its next Mars Rover doesn't roll over or get stuck in some
sand dune, and there are plenty of Earth-bound biologists
and biology departments who can perform such work as NASA
is now conducting at Mono Lake.

Unfortunately so many people are in love with the notion
of Martian and other bugs, shrubs, ETs, Little Green Men,
etc etc etc that NASA sees an opportunity for PR tease
and hype, with consequent budgetary support. Well, I am
all in favor of the hard science of space exploration, but
I have a serious aversion to tease and hype, and I hope
this source of tease and hype at Mono Lake gets the plug
pulled on it if Congress ever goes on a real budget-cutting spree.
 
Re: NASA Discovers New Life: Arsenic Bacteria With DNA Completely Alien To What We Kn

My friend earlier today was explaining to me the importance and it is really cool.
 
Re: NASA to announce "major discovery" that could boost chances of life on other worl

However, those interested in astrobiology - the hunt for life elsewhere in the cosmos - have long argued that alien life might be built on a different set of rules.

For example, astrobiologists have suggested that instead of the ubiquitous water that makes up so much of life, extraterrestrial life might just as likely run on ammonia.

One idea to shore up these theories is to begin to look for examples of life here on Earth that break the "golden rules" of biochemistry - in effect, finding life that evolved separately from our own lineage.

John Elliott, a leader of the UK's search for extraterrestrial intelligence, explained how such evidence on Earth could be suggestive about life elsewhere.

"If we can find a 'second genesis' on our planet, obviously separate from our own evolution, you could then extrapolate that life can generate multiple times - that it's not a one-off phenomenon," he told BBC News.
Continue reading the main story
“Start Quote

If something here on Earth can do something so unexpected, what else can life do that we haven't seen yet? Now is the time to find out”

End Quote Felisa Wolfe-Simon Nasa Astrobiology Institute

"And that's incredible evidence for it happening on other planets."

BBC News - Arsenic-loving bacteria may help in hunt for alien life
 
Re: NASA to announce "major discovery" that could boost chances of life on other worl

Here's the official press release from NASA:
NASA - NASA-Funded Research Discovers Life Built With Toxic Chemical

It confirms that NASA has indeed discovered life that uses arsenic instead of phosphorus in its DNA. The article doesn't say anything about a second abiogenesis, so it's unclear if the arsenic microbes somehow evolved from life as we know it, or if they're terrestrial aliens. I'm sure the experts will be weighing in on what this means by this evening.

In any case, it answers a long-standing question in astrobiology: Must ALL life necessarily be "life as we know it?" Today we have a definitive answer: No.
 
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Re: NASA Discovers New Life: Arsenic Bacteria With DNA Completely Alien To What We Kn

It finally answers the long-standing question of whether life has to be "life as we know it," or if other forms of life are possible.
 
Re: NASA Discovers New Life: Arsenic Bacteria With DNA Completely Alien To What We Kn

bicycleman said:
I thought you were going to say that NASA just discovered life in Washington, D.C.
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Damn you are a dreamer, my friend. LOL

In response to the OP this is no surprise and I thought we covered it pretty well yesterday when NASA was making out like they were going to make an earth shattering announcement, that now we know was all hype.

If you do a little research you will find that there have been as many as over 16,500 discoveries of new life forms in a single year.

As time goes on we should discover even more and very strange ones as well.

I believe life is abundant though out the Universe and one day either the Government will announce they have proof of life on another planet, or intelligent life will present itself here with the following:

Much better than the remake.
 
Re: NASA to announce "major discovery" that could boost chances of life on other worl

Here's Wired Magazine / Gizmodo's take on it:
NASA Finds New Life Form | Wired Science | Wired.com

Hours before its special news conference today, the cat is out of the bag: NASA has discovered a completely new life form that doesn’t share the biological building blocks of anything currently living on planet Earth. This changes everything.

gizmodo_logoAt its conference today, NASA scientist Felisa Wolfe Simon will announce that NASA has found a bacteria whose DNA is completely alien to what we know today. Instead of using phosphorus, the bacteria uses arsenic. All life on Earth is made of six components: carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, phosphorus and sulfur. Every being, from the smallest amoeba to the largest whale, shares the same life stream. Our DNA blocks are all the same.

But not this one.
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Re: NASA Discovers New Life: Arsenic Bacteria With DNA Completely Alien To What We Kn

Councilman said:
In response to the OP this is no surprise and I thought we covered it pretty well yesterday when NASA was making out like they were going to make an earth shattering announcement, that now we know was all hype.
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Uhh this is a pretty major discovery. It's the first time "life as we don't know it" has been found, and strongly suggests that we may be overlooking worlds that could potentially harbor life if we just assume that all life shares our biochemistry.

Councilman said:
If you do a little research you will find that there have been as many as over 16,500 discoveries of new life forms in a single year.

As time goes on we should discover even more and very strange ones as well.
Click to expand...

This isn't just a random new species with an interesting quirk. It's a completely different TYPE of life, with a biochemistry completely different from life as we've known it.
 
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Re: NASA Discovers New Life: Arsenic Bacteria With DNA Completely Alien To What We Kn

Just don't try and have sex with an arsenic based life form. It could be fatal!
 
Maybe you should actually learn what "hard science" means before saying you're in favor of it. Anyway, a pretty huge discovery and well worth the "hype" for those that actually understand such things. The importance for NASA is pretty obvious and well explained as to why they would be involved in this kind of research. No need to get into the obvious, I think.
 
Re: NASA Discovers New Life: Arsenic Bacteria With DNA Completely Alien To What We Kn

Yeah, this isn't like finding a new species.

EVERY species ever found on earth share the same 6 common building blocks in DNA, including the 16,500 new species you spoke about being found last year and every single one that came before them.

This isn't a new species, its essentially a new form of LIFE. Its fundamentally different on a molecular level than every other living entity on the planet.
 
NASA successfully found a species of bacteria that has replaced the phosphorous backbone in its RNA with arsenic, and the bacteria remained fully functional. This has huge potential for life on other planets.

Searching for life on earth that challenges our preconceived notions of how life can operate is essential to understanding the potential for other life in astrobiology. NASA has a huge amount of resources dedicated to visiting the most extreme places on earth in search of life.

A good example that I recently watched a documentary about is the Crystal Cave: YouTube - Naica Crystal Cave - Mexico 1/5
 
Re: NASA Discovers New Life: Arsenic Bacteria With DNA Completely Alien To What We Kn

They made it a point to stress right off the bat with the press conference that the bacteria substituted arsenic for phosphorous in its DNA, it is not a new form of life it is an adaptation of existing life. It does still have profound implications though, since it illustrates that life can exist in conditions previously thought hostile to it.

I want to find more info and a detailed written account of their findings, to find out when this substitution took place, was it in the lab or prior.. this is still unclear, and I do not have the time to spare atm to really dig deeply into it -if anyone can come up with details (not journalist interpretations please) that would be great.
 
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Re: NASA Discovers New Life: Arsenic Bacteria With DNA Completely Alien To What We Kn

marduc said:
They made it a point to stress right off the bat with the press release that the bacteria substituted arsenic for phosphorous in its DNA, it is not a new form of life it is an adaptation of existing life. It does still have profound implications though, since it illustrates that life can exist in conditions previously thought hostile to it.

I want to find more info and a detailed written account of their findings, to find out when this substitution took place, was it in the lab or prior.. this is still unclear, and I do not have the time to spare atm to really dig deeply into it -if anyone can come up with details (not journalist interpretations please) that would be great.
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Ah, I see what you're saying. I didn't think substituded as in originally had and then swapped...but more talking that it used arsenic where most things used phosphorous. What you're saying would definitely be a bit different with regards to my reaction to it.
 
Re: NASA Discovers New Life: Arsenic Bacteria With DNA Completely Alien To What We Kn

marduc said:
They made it a point to stress right off the bat with the press conference that the bacteria substituted arsenic for phosphorous in its DNA, it is not a new form of life it is an adaptation of existing life. It does still have profound implications though, since it illustrates that life can exist in conditions previously thought hostile to it.

I want to find more info and a detailed written account of their findings, to find out when this substitution took place, was it in the lab or prior.. this is still unclear, and I do not have the time to spare atm to really dig deeply into it -if anyone can come up with details (not journalist interpretations please) that would be great.
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In the lab. Ars Technica has a good writeup.

The researchers propose that, if an organism possesses an ability to overcome arsenate’s instability, it might be able to exchange phosphorus for arsenic in biological pathways. To test their hypothesis, they extracted GFAJ-1 from Mono Lake and subjected the bacteria to an artificial medium with increasing concentrations of arsenate and only trace amounts of phosphate.

GFAJ-1 bacteria grew slower with arsenate than they would with phosphate, but they were still able to increase their cell count by 20-fold in six days. The cells ended up containing 0.19 percent arsenic by dry weight compared to just 0.001 percent in the control cells. More importantly, the cells grown in arsenate were noticeably different in morphology from the control population. They were 1.5 times bigger by volume and developed large vacuole-like regions inside the cells.

Rather than just retaining arsenic inside the cells, the authors provided evidence that the bacteria actually integrated arsenic into DNA and possibly other biomolecules. They found higher arsenic and lower phosphorus content in purified genomic DNA of bacteria grown in arsenate compared to control cells.

Synchrotron X-ray studies of intracellular arsenic revealed that it is mostly likely bound to four oxygen atoms and then distally bound to a carbon atom. This configuration is consistent with arsenic replacing phosphorus in the backbone DNA. Substitution of elements is known to occur in biological processes (e.g., copper in hemocyanin vs. iron in hemoglobin for oxygen transport), but it has not been seen in something as fundamental as the structure of DNA, nor has it been observed with arsenic.
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Moderator's Warning:
Merged the three threads, including the one in the Science section here to consolidate and reduce confusion. Sorry for the disruption, please carry on. Fascinating stuff.
 
Re: NASA to announce "major discovery" that could boost chances of life on other worl

I can already tell you whats going on.

We are here, we are among you, we have been watching and we are not pleased.

We will come from the sky, we will take over, your leaders will be punished, and those who have nothing, shall recieve everything, from money grabbing CEO's, to ruthless Rebel leaders and criminals, we know who you are, we know where you live, and when we come, you will feel our wrath.

:2razz:

Be afraid, be very afraid. ;)
 
Re: NASA to announce "major discovery" that could boost chances of life on other worl

 
Re: NASA to announce "major discovery" that could boost chances of life on other worl

Also the fact, that they have made Arsenic-based life on earth could also be a indicator that life can evolve anywhere, and in any environment. Which means the possibility of life on other planets than earth has just tripled.:mrgreen:


This is a groundbreaking discovery, that I'm going all nerdy over.
 
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Re: NASA to announce "major discovery" that could boost chances of life on other worl

Kandahar said:
Here's the official press release from NASA:

NASA - NASA-Funded Research Discovers Life Built With Toxic Chemical

The article doesn't say anything about a second abiogenesis, (emphasis added- USV)
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Yes it does:

(from article, paragraph 8, first sentence):

The newly discovered microbe, strain GFAJ-1, is a member of a common group of bacteria, the Gammaproteobacteria




Kandahar said:
In any case, it answers a long-standing question in astrobiology: Must ALL life necessarily be "life as we know it?" Today we have a definitive answer: No.
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Inaccurate.

This bacteria is a part of life as we know it, that life being of common descent
from one primordial organism, as we are.

It just so happens that this one has relative immunity to arsenic. I wonder if
bitter almonds were very much rarer than they are, and were discovered today,
whether the cyanide tolerance of the plant might be considered as remarkable
as the arsenic tolerance of this bug from Mono Lake.
 
Re: NASA to announce "major discovery" that could boost chances of life on other worl

USViking said:
It just so happens that this one has relative immunity to arsenic. I wonder if
bitter almonds were very much rarer than they are, and were discovered today,
whether the cyanide tolerance of the plant might be considered as remarkable
as the arsenic tolerance of this bug from Mono Lake.
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If cyanide was incorporated in their DNA, yes to a lesser extent, however cyanide is made up of two elements that are already known to be common in lifeforms (carbon and nitrogen), and is actually produced by living organisms - you may as well be asking the same regarding digitoxin, or palytoxin, or any other organically produced compound that can be poisonous to some organisms.

Arsenic is an element - not a chemical compound - this adds to the list of potential elements that can be core constituents of organic molecules (in this case DNA) - it does not say that certain compounds made of elements that are already known to be common to life can be tolerated, it adds a new element to the list of what to look for for life itself.

And this is beyond it being relatively immune to arsenic, it is actually utilizing it in DNA in place of what was an essential element to all other observed lifeforms (phosphorous).

edit: and yes digitoxin and palytoxin are much more complex than cyanide, but they are still compounds that are produced organically
 
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It's Thursday, where's the press release?
 
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