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Thread: Airport Security: Let's Profile Muslims

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    Re: Airport Security: Let's Profile Muslims

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Profiling can probably have beneficial effects. However, if we solely rely on profiling, then it is easy to defeat since terrorists can start recruiting people who don't fit the profile.
    You're right. But! The traveling public will accept security measures much more readily and willingly if we profile based on, "Hmmm, let's see....who's been committing these acts of terrorism?"

    I want every single Muslim woman (anyone) wearing facial covering to be forced to remove that facial covering so that facial recognition software has a chance. I want every single person who's wearing flowing robes to be body scanned or patted down. If these people think we are infringing on their religious freedom, they can walk.

    Great post, Whovian. Really, a step in the right direction by the Muslim community.
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    Re: Airport Security: Let's Profile Muslims

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Maybe when Christians start policing themselves, there won't be any more dead gay teens. Pot, meet kettle.
    You're claiming dead gay teens and pot smoking are done in the name of Jesus then? You're ludicrious comparison is too laughable to even acknowledge any other way.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Airport Security: Let's Profile Muslims

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Quick question...

    How do you know someone is a Muslim at the airport security gate? Do they dress like a Muslim? well then the Muslim-terrorist just won't look like one. Do they talk with an Arabic accent? Well not all Muslims are Arab and one can be taught an American or other accent in phrases needed to get through an airport. Do we ask everyone in the US what their religion, because of domestic terrorists, as well as those entering the US? They can lie...



    How do we do it?
    You train the TSA in questions to ask, and methods to indicate a person is being evasive, and then set them aside for more in depth discussion and investigation.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Airport Security: Let's Profile Muslims

    Profiling is already being done. I'd like to see a poll on how many Arab Moslem males didn't get a little extra security check at the airport. Checking everyone else is for the non-Arab terrorist, but mainly to disguise the Arab male profiling.

    It is what it is. Why be naive?

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    Re: Airport Security: Let's Profile Muslims

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    You train the TSA in questions to ask, and methods to indicate a person is being evasive, and then set them aside for more in depth discussion and investigation.
    You realize TSA already DOES train individuals to do this type of thing? They're not hugely wide spread and tend to be at the big airports because its expensive training to get someone actually skilled at it. The people routinely and rather ignorantly comparing things to Israel need to realize we're gigantic compared to them.

    We have 303,289,200 more people in our country. That's almost 42 times more than Israel. We have 14,000 registered airports in our country as compared to 31. That's more than 400 airports for every one they have. We have almost as many Category X airports, the largest designation, as they have airports in general. In three weeks of time half the population of Israel will have passed through Chicago O'Hare International Airport alone.

    The feasability, both in logistics and in cost, to roll out an Israel type of airport security would be mind boggling. The training involved, the higher pay for every employee that would be required, the higher quality employee that it would need, in and of itself presents huge issues in those two realms.

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    Re: Airport Security: Let's Profile Muslims

    Exactly how do you propose that we start profiling muslim travelers? Anyone with a funny-sounding name should receive extra screening, perhaps? Or, people with brown skin? Or, women wearing head scarves?

    The thing is...airports, airlines, and the TSA aren't set up to collect data on travelers' religious preferences. At this point, it would be extremely unwise for a muslim terror organization to send someone in full-on burkha onto a flight to bomb it. Their efforts would be doomed to fail, because not only are TSA employees likely to pay special attention to such folks (whether they subject them to special screening or not), and so are other travelers.

    The recent efforts at recruitment have been directed at Somali youth, who are AFRICAN genetically. So, rocket scientists in this thread who are advocating profiling, you going to pull all the black folks out of line for special screening? What about black muslims who've been in America forever, and who haven't been linked to any terror attacks in the U.S.? Going to give them a special screening, too, even though they don't fit the "profile"?

    I deal with profiling, all the time, as part of my job. I don't think that, in this instance, it is going to be as easy as you think it is. Israel, who profiles, for instance, doesn't have anti-religious discrimination laws and privacy laws that function the way that ours do.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 11-30-10 at 10:53 AM.

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    Re: Airport Security: Let's Profile Muslims

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    ight. [B]ButI want every single Muslim woman (anyone) wearing facial covering to be forced to remove that facial covering so that facial recognition software has a chance. I want every single person who's wearing flowing robes to be body scanned or patted down. If these people think we are infringing on their religious freedom, they can walk.
    When was the last time you saw someone wearing garments lke this while traveling? Were ANY of the 9/11 or subsequent bombers wearing flowing robes? Going to search the black folks in daishikis, too?

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    Re: Airport Security: Let's Profile Muslims

    I think it would be easier and better to profile foreigners or naturalized citizens. It's seems many terrorists are from Somalia or Yemen.
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    Re: Airport Security: Let's Profile Muslims

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    You realize TSA already DOES train individuals to do this type of thing?
    Do they? To what extent and with what purpose? They don't seem to rely on that training however, since there are invasive pat downs, scanners, and metal wands and metal detectors. Contrast what we do with El Al in Israel, and maybe the answer is somewhere in between. On a side note, I live in the NE - the TSA agents I encounter at Phil. International, Newark International and Laguardia, I wouldn't trust as far as I can throw them for the most part. Just my perception? Maybe ... but the TSA folks I see don't seem competent to dress themselves in the morning for the most part.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    They're not hugely wide spread and tend to be at the big airports because its expensive training to get someone actually skilled at it. The people routinely and rather ignorantly comparing things to Israel need to realize we're gigantic compared to them.
    Newark, Philly and Laguardia are big airports - my previous comments stand. I constantly hear the complaint about how large the U.S. is and how small Israel is, but no reasoning why El Al's methods are not scalable, yet see no sound facts or evidence to show your claim of my ignorance has any validity. Why isn't it scalable again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    We have 303,289,200 more people in our country. That's almost 42 times more than Israel. We have 14,000 registered airports in our country as compared to 31. That's more than 400 airports for every one they have. We have almost as many Category X airports, the largest designation, as they have airports in general. In three weeks of time half the population of Israel will have passed through Chicago O'Hare International Airport alone.

    The feasability, both in logistics and in cost, to roll out an Israel type of airport security would be mind boggling. The training involved, the higher pay for every employee that would be required, the higher quality employee that it would need, in and of itself presents huge issues in those two realms.
    So too costly, too complicated logistically, too much training... that's it? And when compared to the training that TSA agents (you claim) already get, and the cost of these scanners from R&D to implementation and the training agents need to run those machines, coupled with the added no-fly list, random flagging of people to go through bag searches, invasive pat downs, etc... how is the questionable effectiveness of what we're doing now any more logistically a nightmare or less costly than a PROVEN methods provided by El Al?

    Answer -- it's not. The entire argument of "it's not scalable" is made out of ignorance. Fact is, it's not been tried in the U.S. to scale so you don't know. What we DO know is what we have now is a mishmash of costly and ineffective methods which trample on individual rights - whether that is justified or not doesn't justify ignoring El Al's significant successes around their methods. Perhaps it's another tool in the tool box to use at every airport and doesn't displace everything else bolsters it. Yet, I've not seen a report from the government or anyone else from that matter that identifies it's too costly to implement, or too difficult to train, or that it's not scalable. Those are simply baseless talking points.
    Last edited by Ockham; 11-30-10 at 10:38 AM.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Airport Security: Let's Profile Muslims

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I think it would be easier and better to profile foreigners or naturalized citizens. It's seems many terrorists are from Somalia or Yemen.
    Exactly how are we going to let the TSA know that someone is a naturalized versus homegrown citizen? It's not like that fact is included on ANY documentation that travelers use. So, are we going to set up a new database that identifies naturalized citizens from certain countries?

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