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Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

Aunt Spiker said:
Why do you assume this?

Why, in this day and age of advancement and knowledge, would the world digress?

My children will are better off now than I was at their age - but I can't apply our life circumstances to everyone.
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Albert said "standard of living" not education or advancement. There are a lot of educated people and college graduates out of work right now. And as a businessman i can tell things are not what they were 10 or 20 years ago. The same amount of income or business doesn't take me anywhere near today what it did 10 years ago. The crazy part is my prices are over double what they were back then. Fuel and taxes are higher now too.
 
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Aunt Spiker said:
Why do you assume this?

Why, in this day and age of advancement and knowledge, would the world digress?

My children will are better off now than I was at their age - but I can't apply our life circumstances to everyone.
Click to expand...

America has been living on its accumulated capital for decades. Now, that cannot be sustained.

The American Empire had the effect of boosting the living standards of Americans. For example, crude oil is priced in dollars. The dollar has been the world's reserve currency. But now the dollar has been demeaned and devalued. American living standards will follow the decline.

America's infrastructure and educational system were created by a people who are now gone. Those who succeeded them allowed the country's infrastructure to crumble, and the the public school system to collapse in all but the wealthiest neighborhoods.

American industrial and white collar jobs have been exported overseas because it no longer makes sense to hire Americans. It costs too much money and they need remedial education.

America is attempting to maintain an empire that is slowly slipping away.

China will eclipse America within two generations at most.

I could go on for hours.
 
Indeed, yes - standard of living.
In the last 50 years it might have taken a dive in some ways. But everything?

We depend on things that didn't even exist 50 years ago - technology improvements are our new 'revolution'

( I always think in terms of 'century' - this century, the 18th Century, the 15th Century. I think I default to this century-view now because I'm currently taking two history classes - everything's century-based. - which is where my thought was with that comment - thinking to just a few centuries ago before the Agricultural Revolution even came to the world - compared to now)
 
EnigmaO01 said:
Albert said "standard of living" not education or advancement. There are a lot of educated people and college graduates out of work right now. And as a businessman i can tell things are not what they were 10 or 20 years ago. The same amount of income or business doesn't take me anywhere near today what it did 10 years ago. The crazy part is my prices are over double what they were back then. Fuel and taxes are higher now too.
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There are many Americans who are well educated, but for whom there are no opportunities. The jobs that have been lost are not coming back. The American economy was once ruthlessly efficient, and was able to absorb new graduates at a fantastic pace. But the economy is no longer ruthlessly efficient. Instead the economy has been politicized.

However, the American reservoir of human capital is subsiding because the public school system can't get rid of bad teachers. The public school system has some brilliant and dedicated teachers, but for everyone like that, there are many killing time while collecting a paycheck. The public school system is designed to provide jobs for adults, not to effectively educate children.
 
Albert Di Salvo said:
America has been living on its accumulated capital for decades. Now, that cannot be sustained.
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I disagree. America has been living on its ability to continually achieve high levels of productivity via cutting edge breakthroughs in innovation. I do not see this changing anytime soon. China has yet to show the ability to truly innovate on a broad level.
 
Albert Di Salvo said:
There are many Americans who are well educated, but for whom there are no opportunities. The jobs that have been lost are not coming back. The American economy was once ruthlessly efficient, and was able to absorb new graduates at a fantastic pace. But the economy is no longer ruthlessly efficient. Instead the economy has been politicized.

However, the American reservoir of human capital is subsiding because the public school system can't get rid of bad teachers. The public school system has some brilliant and dedicated teachers, but for everyone like that, there are many killing time while collecting a paycheck. The public school system is designed to provide jobs for adults, not to effectively educate children.
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Agree, and that is enough....if the public schools can educate you enough that you can be further trained to do a job that gives you a living wage, this is all that is required......if you want a "better education", go to college, and after that, read books...
 
UtahBill said:
Agree, and that is enough....if the public schools can educate you enough that you can be further trained to do a job that gives you a living wage, this is all that is required......if you want a "better education", go to college, and after that, read books...
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Where I live large numbers of kids drop out and then gang bang.

A highly educated work force is needed unless Americans are satisfied selling cheeseburgers and fries to each other. Most of these kids can't effectively compete with foreign kids. The foreign kids are better educated than American kids.
 
Albert Di Salvo said:
Where I live large numbers of kids drop out and then gang bang.

A highly educated work force is needed unless Americans are satisfied selling cheeseburgers and fries to each other. Most of these kids can't effectively compete with foreign kids. The foreign kids are better educated than American kids.
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MOST jobs are at best semiskilled and the training for those jobs can be done on the job.
GOOD jobs, that pay twice min wage and up, require a bit more education and training, but still fall short of the need of a college degree. In highly technical jobs, 2 years of trade school up to college degrees are required.
The main function a high school should have is to expose the kids to a basic education so that they are trainable. IF they want more than the basics, advanced classes are available at most public schools. Those would be higher level math (past basic algebra), physics, chemistry, etc....
It is up to the kids to choose their path, and if they want to be poor, we should let them...as long as we don't have to subsidize them in their poverty.
 
Ah - that's a good point you brought up (indirectly brought up, anyway)

One thing that's most certainly changed are the requirements for being able to *do* those basic jobs - as in: being certified and licensed to do construction and so on. I'm sure - along with lower rates in certain areas - came a higher risk of injury due to unregulated (or regulated-less) work environments and poor workmanship from less regulation.

Other things have also improved and changed which have led to higher costs: the quality of building materials like copper pipes and equipment has increased - thus - cost is up. (and I'm still thinking construction labor since that's what came up the other day).

I think you'll find this still true, today - and will continue to be true for quite some time.
 
Albert Di Salvo said:
Where I live large numbers of kids drop out and then gang bang.

A highly educated work force is needed unless Americans are satisfied selling cheeseburgers and fries to each other. Most of these kids can't effectively compete with foreign kids. The foreign kids are better educated than American kids.
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As the husband of an educator don't be misled by stats that show foreign kids are better educated. It's not always what it appears to be. Case in point: In parts of Europe the college bound are separated early (grade school) from those that will be learning a trade. These are the higher academic level kids and of course they score well on college entry exams. Then you have American kids where most of them take the SAT or ACT even if they are not that academic and some aren't even sure if they want to go to college. Who do you think scores higher on the tests? And of course the media in their all mighty negativity says American kids score lower hence they are dong worse!
 
That is a good point Enigma and it is true of many foreign nations. They track their students into different levels and all do not take the same standardized tests. Having said that however, Japan is a nation that both does tracking but still tests everyone. They do an amazing job of giving a very high caliber education to a very wide sector of Japanese society. Having gone there and having studied this system I am convinced that the key reason for this success is a nearly obsessive dedication in the family with the education of their children. It is a national obsession and a good one. I also think that the centralized system with the coordinated curriculum and standardized tests which dovetail perfectly into what a student actually is learning is a factor as well.

As a nation, we fall short in both categories.

Our colleges tend to be much better though. So perhaps there is some salvation.
 
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