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Thread: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    No one paid for my college. I worked nights in a grocery store to do that myself. Why should I pay for theirs if they're too lazy to do less than glamorous work?
    Education is the one thing worthy of going into debt for...not that I had to.
    My Uncle Sam paid for my college classes.
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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    That's awesome. Obviously it meant a lot to you and was very important - and having been there and done that surely you see what I was referring to when I said that I believe a C average shouldn't net one a degree - for many it's just party-central. We all know this.
    But everyone should be given a chance to prove they can possibly handle it.

    No one's saying that such committment to your own education is wrong or a bad example. But, looking back, if you had some help wouldn't it have been nice? You worked your ass off - but I'm sure the occasional support would have been happily accepted by you.

    Help should be given to thsoe who've proven they're responsible enough to handle it and can stick with it.
    And, surely, that's how things *do go* - if a student is in with a FAFSA and they fail a course - they can lose their support.

    the cost of college, though, like everything else, has gone up considerably - for me to go to my school, not even full time, it costs me $5,000 out of pocket and the rest is covered by my husband's GI Bill - which he shed blood for.

    IF someone doesn't really want to stick wit hthe college program for 4 or 6 years - then they won't last that 4 or 6 years.

    Justl ike joining the military - you can sign up, doesn't mean you'll make it through boot camp.
    The problem is, what your proposing will be the first step of opening Pandora's Box.

    Soon, the process will get watered down - like in high school - to the point that everyone graduates. Then, that degree will be worth nothing, and the employment opportunities it's supposed to create will be gone.

    It should remain a relatively exclusive accomplishment. And the truest statement there is remains, "the world needs ditch diggers, too."

    Unions have caused this mentality. Getting paid obnoxious sums of money for screwing in a bolt in an assembly line, and being basically unfirable for years for any reason, has built an enormous sense of entitlement.

    Now that those jobs are gone, those folks aren't willing to work for 10 bucks an hour, even though they graduated high school by the skin of their teeth.

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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    Erod .... I do think we part on philosophy even though our way through college was very similar. My father was a factory worker and my mother a stay at home mom. I was the oldest of four kids with the youngest being a sister who was born when I was 16. We had three small bedrooms and when she turned one she got her room and the three boys shared one room. When I graduated from high school I asked my father if he could help pay for it. He walked me back to the bedroom pointed to it and said I could sleep there as long as i wanted to and eat here every day. The rest was on me. When my regular summer job ended, he gave me a very good peice of advice on how to land a job and it worked perfectly. I held that job all the way through four years of college working as a night auditor in a hotel and working extra shifts as I could get them. I went to a local community college because it was cheap at $6 per credit hour and I stayed to get the maximum 60 credits that would transfer to a local university that I could drive to each day. I went through junk cars like toilet paper. Like you all I did was two things - work and go to school.Oh - and I slept an average of four hours a day for four years and I am one of those who needs eight hours sleep. In four years I never attended one athletic event or one party. I brown bagged a lunch each day that my mom made as she made for all the family members. I was on the debate team for two years and loved that more than any other part of my college experience. It enabled me to tour lots of this great country and I even flew on a place for the first time when I was 18. I will never forget that.

    The memories of those days are all good and I treasure them.

    But I do not think our road is for everyone to travel down. Like you I think the experience made me tough and disciplined and prepared me for the rest of my life. Like you I think it has paid off a million fold. I owe my father a great deal for what he did for me and probably more for what he did not do for me and forced me to do for myself. Later I became a long distance marathon runner and found it easy because of the discipline I learned in college and from my father. And it has stayed with me for the last four decades.

    But I do not think such a path is for everyone. I do not think everyone can be successful at it. Everybody is not the same - everybody is not equal - everyone does not have the same strengths. Some people need more help. Some people need rest breaks. Some people need what you and I did not need because we did not have that luxury.

    I do not think that makes folks like you and I better or superior than anybody else. It is simply the path we took because it was the only one open to us which got us to the destination where we wanted to go. It is good that we live in a society where there are many paths open to people.
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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    The problem is, what your proposing will be the first step of opening Pandora's Box.

    Soon, the process will get watered down - like in high school - to the point that everyone graduates. Then, that degree will be worth nothing, and the employment opportunities it's supposed to create will be gone.

    It should remain a relatively exclusive accomplishment. And the truest statement there is remains, "the world needs ditch diggers, too."

    Unions have caused this mentality. Getting paid obnoxious sums of money for screwing in a bolt in an assembly line, and being basically unfirable for years for any reason, has built an enormous sense of entitlement.

    Now that those jobs are gone, those folks aren't willing to work for 10 bucks an hour, even though they graduated high school by the skin of their teeth.
    And so you don't think it's already watered-down, now?
    Education isnt' a cure-all but that doesn't mean anyone should be DENIED it for any reason.
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    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    You could not be more poor than I was when I went to college. Not possible. I worked in a grocery store and ate beans and rice through college. I paid my own way.

    And you know what? It really wasn't that bad because I wanted to do it. It paid off not only in the degree, but every time I need to knuckle down to accomplish something in life.

    In fact, though I'm someone of measurable means now, I am going to make my kids pay for their college, too. It was perhaps the most character-building experience of my life, and it has paid off a million-fold.

    You start letting just anyone who "kinda" wants to go to college in, and it will water down the system with people that simply have no serious business being there.
    Excellent point. Coasting thru life works for some, tho. I know a few people who manage on just good looks. I got shorted in that department.
    We paid our kids college expenses, but let them know that it might be the only inheritance they get, so they should take advantage of the offer. They remember well mom and dad taking night classes to get ahead, and they knew that college was in thier future before they knew what college means.
    When I was taking night classes, nearly all of us were adults going to college for the first time, or returning after dropping out years back. It is good that these kinds of programs are available. Taxpayers pay for much of it, tho. Don't doubt that for a minute.
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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Erod .... I do think we part on philosophy even though our way through college was very similar. My father was a factory worker and my mother a stay at home mom. I was the oldest of four kids with the youngest being a sister who was born when I was 16. We had three small bedrooms and when she turned one she got her room and the three boys shared one room. When I graduated from high school I asked my father if he could help pay for it. He walked me back to the bedroom pointed to it and said I could sleep there as long as i wanted to and eat here every day. The rest was on me. When my regular summer job ended, he gave me a very good peice of advice on how to land a job and it worked perfectly. I held that job all the way through four years of college working as a night auditor in a hotel and working extra shifts as I could get them. I went to a local community college because it was cheap at $6 per credit hour and I stayed to get the maximum 60 credits that would transfer to a local university that I could drive to each day. I went through junk cars like toilet paper. Like you all I did was two things - work and go to school.Oh - and I slept an average of four hours a day for four years and I am one of those who needs eight hours sleep. In four years I never attended one athletic event or one party. I brown bagged a lunch each day that my mom made as she made for all the family members. I was on the debate team for two years and loved that more than any other part of my college experience. It enabled me to tour lots of this great country and I even flew on a place for the first time when I was 18. I will never forget that.

    The memories of those days are all good and I treasure them.

    But I do not think our road is for everyone to travel down. Like you I think the experience made me tough and disciplined and prepared me for the rest of my life. Like you I think it has paid off a million fold. I owe my father a great deal for what he did for me and probably more for what he did not do for me and forced me to do for myself. Later I became a long distance marathon runner and found it easy because of the discipline I learned in college and from my father. And it has stayed with me for the last four decades.

    But I do not think such a path is for everyone. I do not think everyone can be successful at it. Everybody is not the same - everybody is not equal - everyone does not have the same strengths. Some people need more help. Some people need rest breaks. Some people need what you and I did not need because we did not have that luxury.

    I do not think that makes folks like you and I better or superior than anybody else. It is simply the path we took because it was the only one open to us which got us to the destination where we wanted to go. It is good that we live in a society where there are many paths open to people.
    At 15 I asked my dad about college, he said talk to your mother. She wanted room and board, and she wanted a lot considering the quality of the food. I am so grateful for the GI Bill....
    Oracle of Utah
    Truth rings hollow in empty heads.

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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    from Utah Bill

    We paid our kids college expenses, but let them know that it might be the only inheritance they get, so they should take advantage of the offer.
    We did the same with our two. Although I told them that they could go to any college within driving distance and we would pay the tuition and books and could live at home as long as they wanted to. We passed on the older family cars to them as their first car. We did tell that them that if they wanted to live away from home and go away to college, the board cost would be on them. Neither did so and both finished school without owing one penny to anybody for anything.

    She wanted room and board, and she wanted a lot considering the quality of the food. I am so grateful for the GI Bill..
    So how long did you spend in the service? How did that food compare to your mothers?
    __________________________________________________ _
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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    And so you don't think it's already watered-down, now?
    Education isnt' a cure-all but that doesn't mean anyone should be DENIED it for any reason.
    Absolutely it is, I don't want it to be moreso. Like I said...Pandora's Box.

    I don't see where it is denied to anyone. It's there for the taking, if they really want it.

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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    from Utah Bill



    We did the same with our two. Although I told them that they could go to any college within driving distance and we would pay the tuition and books and could live at home as long as they wanted to. We passed on the older family cars to them as their first car. We did tell that them that if they wanted to live away from home and go away to college, the board cost would be on them. Neither did so and both finished school without owing one penny to anybody for anything.



    So how long did you spend in the service? How did that food compare to your mothers?
    Our kids have expressed gratitude for not having college debt. Many of their friends have those huge loans.
    They didn't get their own cars til they were juniors, in college. And they had no say in the choice of cars. If I am going to maintain them, I get to choose them. Later they got $5K graduation gifts to help them with their newer cars. Our plan was to educate them to the point that they won't come back and live with us as adults, with spouses, and kids. So far, the plan has worked.
    I did 12.5 years active and 10 years reserves. I get about $1250 per month Navy retirement since I turned 60..

    Navy chow is far superior to my mother's cooking. There were no fatties in our family...
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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    Absolutely it is, I don't want it to be moreso. Like I said...Pandora's Box.

    I don't see where it is denied to anyone. It's there for the taking, if they really want it.
    Does anybody really think that we will ever have a really good education system? Think about it, an EDUCATED and INFORMED electorate? What "elected" position govt worker wants that?
    Oracle of Utah
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