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Thread: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Ok - there's some context, now your point makes more sense.

    Inflation, then is the main key to the change - everything is more expensive. Everything rises in value, cost - taxes, wages, labor - everything is up.

    What a missed opportunity, though - working husband brings in a comfortable salary and all the women did was sit at home and watch the kids? I see that as a missed opportunity to make significant income with both being gainfully employed.
    And as far as Michigan goes...well...yep...they ahve well and truly screwed that place up. Blame the management...blame the unions... but in the immortal words of Sam Kinneson...if you live in a drought stricken desert...MOVE! Part of understanding the game also means learning about home field...and sometimes you have to change ballparks.

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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Ok - there's some context, now your point makes more sense.

    Inflation, then is the main key to the change - everything is more expensive. Everything rises in value, cost - taxes, wages, labor - everything is up.

    What a missed opportunity, though - working husband brings in a comfortable salary and all the women did was sit at home and watch the kids? I see that as a missed opportunity to make significant income with both being gainfully employed.
    Adding onto this (too late to edit)

    Perhaps thinking of *that* as a continually obtainable standard is the problem.
    That seems more of a "peak-time" or "optimal time" to me than an average and obtainable life-standard that most people should be able to meet and maintain.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    from Aunt Spiker

    What a missed opportunity, though - working husband brings in a comfortable salary and all the women did was sit at home and watch the kids? I see that as a missed opportunity to make significant income with both being gainfully employed.
    the wives were busy and doing something very positive to both their families and the larger society. To intimate that they missed some opportunity to merely make more money is devaluing their immense contribution.

    from NolaMan

    It still exists for everyone if they want to go grab it.
    We clearly see this very differently. It exists for some.
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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Adding onto this (too late to edit)

    Perhaps thinking of *that* as a continually obtainable standard is the problem.
    That seems more of a "peak-time" or "optimal time" to me than an average and obtainable life-standard that most people should be able to meet and maintain.
    you could have a point with that. And perhaps we should do all we can as a people and as a society to achieve that again.
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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    I can't dis Sahm's too much because I was one for 7 years - now I'm a college mom.

    None the less - I think *back then* the average woman couldn't get a reasonable job even if she wanted to. It was socially discouraged - and if you had kids it was financially impossible (daycare's always been expensive). . . . but my initial thoughts are always misguided.

    From what I've read on the subject of post-WWII America - most women wanted to have that ideal family-life, being a Sahm with a nice family and a lovely home - working husband (Men weren't the only ones who embraced this idea).
    Many women who were in their 20's and 30's grew up in post Great Depression and WWII America which was turned upside down. For decades the very notion of having this life was an amazing thing - and when they could make it happen, they sacrificed a lot to pull it together and keep it together.

    Now, in the 21st Century - that wartime thought and emotion niche is forgotten by most - remembered only by those who lived it - and is looked on from a 'it's history' perspective which acts as a buffer.

    The American Dream, in that sense, then would be illusive - and a life pay-off for your hard work if you planned ahead for it and made sacrifices to make it happen. ( I know someone just wrote this view of it a page or two ago)

    So I guess the American Dream has changed with the times.
    What was *just a dream that few achieved* back then is now a standard - over 50% of the populous owns a home these days. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Househo..._United_States

    So - what was a smaller "American Dream" back then has merely expanded.
    I, by those standards, am living the American Dream and then some. . . but I don't consider myself to have achieved something worthy to note at all - or to pine for (obviously) and in fact I discourage people from wanting to step into a mortgage and so on.

    Hmm - good subject. I wonder what my husband's view of this is. Does he consider himself to have achieved the American Dream? If not - why so? I bet you his response is 'yes' - buying the house was his idea.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 11-29-10 at 05:09 PM.
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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    Again, you have a point. I do feel that to dismiss the past simply because the modern attitude "that was then and this is now" is foolish when the past can offer a better way.
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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Again, you have a point. I do feel that to dismiss the past simply because the modern attitude "that was then and this is now" is foolish when the past can offer a better way.
    Yeah, good point - we shoud always look to the past to learn.
    But you shouldn't live in it, you know - the things learned from the past are only useful when applied to the future.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Sane conservatives, yes, but we have a lot of extreme right that will agree with your post in principle, but balk at paying taxes to accomplish the training required.
    No one paid for my college. I worked nights in a grocery store to do that myself. Why should I pay for theirs if they're too lazy to do less than glamorous work?

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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    No one paid for my college. I worked nights in a grocery store to do that myself. Why should I pay for theirs if they're too lazy to do less than glamorous work?
    We have much in common then as I worked midnights and weekends to pay for my education also.

    But I also realize that what worked for me may not work for all.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    We have much in common then as I worked midnights and weekends to pay for my education also.

    But I also realize that what worked for me may not work for all.
    Well, somebody has to dig the ditches.

    It all boils down to one thing: work. Ya gotta get out and make a living somehow. The, "somehow", is up to you. Either way, it's unacceptable to sit on one's ass and wait for the mailman to drop off the welfare check.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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