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Thread: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

  1. #11
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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnWOlin View Post
    Suze Orman: ‘The American Dream Is Dead’ - Jenna Goudreau - The Other Half - Forbes

    I don't tend to think buying a house you will pay on for the rest of your life is the American dream, however I think for at least the next 10 years the American dream probably is dead, we will have to get away from the service industry and shift into different industries to get back to the prosperity my grandparents enjoyed.
    The American dream is dead for the majority of America.” The dream she is referring to is not even a Cinderella story; it’s much more practical. Orman believes the hope of someday owning a home, of working one job for life and retiring at 65 has been crushed by the financial crisis. “The middle class has disappeared,” she continued. “We have a highway to poverty and no roads coming out. I fear for [those] who have been kicked out of their homes, could be living on the streets and don’t know how to get another job. Many of the millions of jobs lost I don’t think are coming back. I am really afraid for the majority of Americans today.”
    Boo-freakin'-hoo, Suzie. The American Dream isn't dead. We've just been chasing the wrong dream for the last 15-20 years. And we're not through chasing it yet as we've raised our kids with a vast sense of entitlement that's going to be their downfall.

    Show me a young woman who gets an education (trade or college), lives at home with her parents a few years after college/school to save some money, and pairs up with a young man who does the same. Show me a couple, then, who gets married with a sensible wedding -- and after the wedding, saving for a few years before getting pregnant. GASP!!!! How about living off one income and saving the other one for a down payment on a home? A sensible home...not one to impress all your friends. Kids in one's late 20's that one parent actually stays home and raises? THAT dream isn't dead. It's just not the DREAM anymore.

    The Dream is now one's choice of colleges and hefty student loans to have a four-year experience that means NOTHING. It's a new/newer car that never gets paid off for want of another new/newer car. It's a $25,000 wedding. It's a honeymoon to some far off exotic place. It's a McMansion bought in the boonies on fumes to impress one's friends. It's every toy at Best Buy right out of the box. It's eating out three nights a week. Who has time to cook when one has an hour's commute to get home?

    No, the American Dream isn't dead. It's just not the same dream anymore. And the new one is as elusive as it is absurd.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    BUYING a house is overrated anyway. . . especially when you consider that most homes are never paid off. Gee: massive debt! What a dream (more like a nightmare).

    I would, right now, prefer I didn't have my own home - an apartment or condo with a reasonable rate would be fabulous. The perks: maintenance isn't up *to you* - if you have a busy life it's perfect.
    Insurance is cheaper, if you choose to get it - no property taxes to pay, either.

    To me the "American Dream" should never have encompassed money-hungry things like autos and homes - *stuff* you can buy or would have to go into debt for (Typical Americanism: dreaming of owning things). I think the American Dream should have stayed focused on a solid eduction - being able to adequately support yourself without needing Mom and Dad's continuing support - or, in your later years, without having to depend on your children to support you.
    Pay your house off.....don't pay your house off....it doesn't matter. Buying a home makes absolute sense.

    You can buy a home, pay on it for 20 years while raising your kids, then sell it for twice what you paid for it (as long as Obama leaves the capital gains tax alone under $500,000 for a couple), and pay cash for something smaller when the kids are gone. If you have a 401K and other savings accounts to go with your social security check, you'll be living quite comfortably.

    Unfortunately, many Americans don't have the basic discipline to accomplish that. They spend everything they earn with absolutely no plan, jump from job to job, drink/gamble/waste their money away, then cry to the government when they get caught with their pants down in the end.

    Suze caters to the lowest common denominator, and with the subprime loan market dried up, her idea of the "American Dream" dried up, too.
    Last edited by Erod; 11-29-10 at 10:57 AM.

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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    The dream is different depending on your wants. My wife and I are living well, better than we expected, so I guess our initial dream was achieved.
    The new dream for us is to see all 7 grandkids graduate from college or trade schools in careers that will sustain them, get married to a nice person, and make a happy life for themselves. We will help, especially with the education. Beyond that, they will be on their own. Preparing the next generation for living on their own should be part of everyone's dream, if you have kids...
    Oracle of Utah
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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    Pay your house off.....don't pay your house off....it doesn't matter. Buying a home makes absolute sense.

    You can buy a home, pay on it for 20 years while raising your kids, then sell it for twice what you paid for it (as long as Obama leaves the capital gains tax alone under $500,000 for a couple), and pay cash for something smaller when the kids are gone. If you have a 401K and other savings accounts to go with your social security check, you'll be living quite comfortably.

    Unfortunately, many Americans don't have the basic discipline to accomplish that. They spend everything they earn with absolutely no plan, jump from job to job, drink/gamble/waste their money away, then cry to the government when they get caught with their pants down in the end.

    Suze caters to the lowest common denominator, and with the subprime loan market dried up, her idea of the "American Dream" dried up, too.
    I agree, home ownership will make sense to most of us, long term. We have had 5, with maximim of 2 at any one time. IF I was younger, and did not have a house now, I would buy 2 assuming I could afford the payments with no rent coming in for the second house. Home ownership is still an excellent LONG TERM investment. Come retirement time, choose which one you want to live in and sell the other, carry the note for added income. We will sell one of ours eventually, probably the bigger one, in Utah, and live in the older, smaller, AZ home, where it is warmer..Since both are essentially paid for, or will be soon, the lump sum we get can go a long way in helping the grandkids with education funding.

    BTW,Give a man a fish, and you've created a liberal. Teach him to fish, and you've created a life-long conservative. That may be true for some, but for many, it creates debt.
    For them it goes like this:
    Once you teach a redneck to fish, he buys (on credit) an expensive bass boat, a 4x4 truck to pull it, and then he spends too much of his time on the lake "fishing", meaning a lot of beer is involved...
    Oracle of Utah
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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    I agree, home ownership will make sense to most of us, long term. We have had 5, with maximim of 2 at any one time. IF I was younger, and did not have a house now, I would buy 2 assuming I could afford the payments with no rent coming in for the second house. Home ownership is still an excellent LONG TERM investment. Come retirement time, choose which one you want to live in and sell the other, carry the note for added income. We will sell one of ours eventually, probably the bigger one, in Utah, and live in the older, smaller, AZ home, where it is warmer..Since both are essentially paid for, or will be soon, the lump sum we get can go a long way in helping the grandkids with education funding.

    BTW,Give a man a fish, and you've created a liberal. Teach him to fish, and you've created a life-long conservative. That may be true for some, but for many, it creates debt.
    For them it goes like this:
    Once you teach a redneck to fish, he buys (on credit) an expensive bass boat, a 4x4 truck to pull it, and then he spends too much of his time on the lake "fishing", meaning a lot of beer is involved...
    a. Your post sounds very much like a conservative.

    b. I know of some of the rednecks you speak of. LOL

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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    a. Your post sounds very much like a conservative.

    b. I know of some of the rednecks you speak of. LOL
    Fiscally, I am very much a conservative. Socially, I think too many of our conservatives don't care about the TRULY disadvantaged.
    There will always be some in need thru no fault of their own, and for some of those it is a permanent condition.

    I say truly, because "poverty" in the USA is a joke. Today's poor are too often poor by choice (my siblings included), and expect way too much from the rest of us. Welfare shouldn't be a living wage...it should be just enough to keep from starving, but not so much that there is no motivation to seek employment and/or more education.
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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    Dreams are, by their nature, fantastical, so I find it an apt term.

    The dream isn't dead, because it was never alive. It is merely a dream, that is all.

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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Fiscally, I am very much a conservative. Socially, I think too many of our conservatives don't care about the TRULY disadvantaged.
    There will always be some in need thru no fault of their own, and for some of those it is a permanent condition.

    I say truly, because "poverty" in the USA is a joke. Today's poor are too often poor by choice (my siblings included), and expect way too much from the rest of us. Welfare shouldn't be a living wage...it should be just enough to keep from starving, but not so much that there is no motivation to seek employment and/or more education.
    There are no votes in such logic. I personally feel that conservatives are trying to do what is truly best for America's poor, but they don't want to hear about "trade schools" and "personal responsibility". Those terms are too hard; it's much easier to just vote the other way and collect the check.

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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Patria Antiqua View Post
    Dreams are, by their nature, fantastical, so I find it an apt term.

    The dream isn't dead, because it was never alive. It is merely a dream, that is all.
    Yet tens of millions of people live it every day. But such an outlook makes for a great coping mechanism, I'll give you that.

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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    Her upcoming book sounds like a very interesting read. I will put it on my list and hope to learn from it.

    I suspect she has hit a nerve in the conservative side of American political thought. She is saying that the America we have today is not the America that used to be and the people paying the highest price for it are the middle class. That message is anathema to the elites who make up the leadership of the Republican party and to libertarian thought molders from places like CATO. If it is true, it means we have been screwing up royally over the last thirty years. And who has gained in both wealth and any other measurement of monetary success during that time when the middle class is losing? Surprise, surprise its the same people who tend to vote Republican and support policies which benefit the upper income class.

    This sounds like one terrific book.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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