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Thread: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Erod .... I do think we part on philosophy even though our way through college was very similar. My father was a factory worker and my mother a stay at home mom. I was the oldest of four kids with the youngest being a sister who was born when I was 16. We had three small bedrooms and when she turned one she got her room and the three boys shared one room. When I graduated from high school I asked my father if he could help pay for it. He walked me back to the bedroom pointed to it and said I could sleep there as long as i wanted to and eat here every day. The rest was on me. When my regular summer job ended, he gave me a very good peice of advice on how to land a job and it worked perfectly. I held that job all the way through four years of college working as a night auditor in a hotel and working extra shifts as I could get them. I went to a local community college because it was cheap at $6 per credit hour and I stayed to get the maximum 60 credits that would transfer to a local university that I could drive to each day. I went through junk cars like toilet paper. Like you all I did was two things - work and go to school.Oh - and I slept an average of four hours a day for four years and I am one of those who needs eight hours sleep. In four years I never attended one athletic event or one party. I brown bagged a lunch each day that my mom made as she made for all the family members. I was on the debate team for two years and loved that more than any other part of my college experience. It enabled me to tour lots of this great country and I even flew on a place for the first time when I was 18. I will never forget that.

    The memories of those days are all good and I treasure them.

    But I do not think our road is for everyone to travel down. Like you I think the experience made me tough and disciplined and prepared me for the rest of my life. Like you I think it has paid off a million fold. I owe my father a great deal for what he did for me and probably more for what he did not do for me and forced me to do for myself. Later I became a long distance marathon runner and found it easy because of the discipline I learned in college and from my father. And it has stayed with me for the last four decades.

    But I do not think such a path is for everyone. I do not think everyone can be successful at it. Everybody is not the same - everybody is not equal - everyone does not have the same strengths. Some people need more help. Some people need rest breaks. Some people need what you and I did not need because we did not have that luxury.

    I do not think that makes folks like you and I better or superior than anybody else. It is simply the path we took because it was the only one open to us which got us to the destination where we wanted to go. It is good that we live in a society where there are many paths open to people.
    That's such an awesome story, and it surprises me how liberal you are. Don't take that the wrong way, just an observation.

    The only things worth doing have a story much like yours. And the things we all treasure are rarely the things that came easiest to us. I don't even know where my high school diploma is, but I know where my college diploma is, and not so much for the degree it represents, but because how my stoic father looked upon me with tears running down his face at my graduation. I didn't even want to go to my graduation (it took me six years to graduate because of the money issues), but I'm awfully glad I did. My very cheap dad insisted on buying me a school ring, though I didn't want one. It's now one of my most cherished possessions even though I long ago stopped wearing it.

    That is what college should be about. Looking at a mountain of adversity ahead of you, and choosing that path anyway.

    Getting prodded or coddled into going, especially on the taxpayers' dime, is NOT what college is about.
    Last edited by Erod; 11-30-10 at 01:01 PM.

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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Does anybody really think that we will ever have a really good education system? Think about it, an EDUCATED and INFORMED electorate? What "elected" position govt worker wants that?
    So true. (Insert Obama/Bush joke here)

    Education inertia comes from the home, and we all know what that situation looks like today in America.

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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    from UtahBill

    Does anybody really think that we will ever have a really good education system? Think about it, an EDUCATED and INFORMED electorate? What "elected" position govt worker wants that?
    First, its neat to read the personal stories of others and compare them to your own experience. Thanks for sharing that.

    As far as your latest post, we do not have an educational system in the USA - we have thousands and thousands of them. Each are unique and different. And within those thousands of systems we have different schools with their own systems and run differently than the school next door. And within the same school you have two teachers who team the same subject who may not even cover the same material so a child taking Government may get a completely different course than the kid right next door in the same school. Many of them are doing a wonderful job at educating kids. I dare say that even the worst are still turning out some educated kids who end up successful.

    Lets get an education system in this country and then we can evaluate it and discuss it. Until that time, it is impossible.
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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    So true. (Insert Obama/Bush joke here)

    Education inertia comes from the home, and we all know what that situation looks like today in America.
    I couldn't agree with this statement more. Until our society values intelligence again as opposed to being rich or famous, we will continue to underperform.

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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    from Erod

    And the things we all treasure are rarely the things that came easiest to us. I don't even know where my high school diploma is, but I know where my college diploma is, and not so much for the degree it represents, but because how my stoic father looked upon me with tears running down his face at my graduation. I didn't even want to go to my graduation (it took me six years to graduate because of the money issues), but I'm awfully glad I did. My very cheap dad insisted on buying me a school ring, though I didn't want one. It's now one of my most cherished possessions even though I long ago stopped wearing it.

    That is what college should be about. Looking at a mountain of adversity ahead of you, and choosing that path anyway.
    That is a great story - thanks for sharing it. Its amazing how similar our lives were. But I did not go to my graduation for college since I knew I was going on to a Masters and it did not mean that much to me. No ring either.... but I did get a different kind of ring that same summer and treasure that.

    btw - I do not consider myself liberal. I eschew labels. I do admit that many of my views are on the left side of what others would call a progressive. But I also take some conservative positions on some issues. I really do not like the idea that we are like butterflies with pins in us and there is some label underneath identifying us to the world. But thats just me.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I couldn't agree with this statement more. Until our society values intelligence again as opposed to being rich or famous, we will continue to underperform.
    You know how Jay Leno does that thing where he asks people on the streets to identify people in pictures, and they can Jessica Simpson, but not Joe Biden? While funny, it also makes my stomach sink.

    I think the biggest issue is the lack of parenting within the home. My dad scared the crap out of us at home about our grades. You brought home a C, especially in something that required basic study discipline like history or health, and your next six weeks were going to be pure hell.

    Nowdays, it seems most parents don't even care enough to look at a report card, and if their kid gets held back, they picket the school.

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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I couldn't agree with this statement more. Until our society values intelligence again as opposed to being rich or famous, we will continue to underperform.
    Value intellect? Are you dating the tooth fairy?
    Next you will be telling us that the reality shows are real life...
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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Value intellect? Are you dating the tooth fairy?
    Next you will be telling us that the reality shows are real life...
    I have found that in the majority of cases (certainly with exceptions) being intelligent goes a long way in helping you get "rich." Many "rich" people will tell you that education is one of the most important things.

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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Value intellect? Are you dating the tooth fairy?
    Next you will be telling us that the reality shows are real life...
    You mean, The Bachelorette isn't about true love?

    I'm going to need some time to digest this.

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    Re: Suze Orman: 'The American Dream' Is Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    from UtahBill



    First, its neat to read the personal stories of others and compare them to your own experience. Thanks for sharing that.

    As far as your latest post, we do not have an educational system in the USA - we have thousands and thousands of them. Each are unique and different. And within those thousands of systems we have different schools with their own systems and run differently than the school next door. And within the same school you have two teachers who team the same subject who may not even cover the same material so a child taking Government may get a completely different course than the kid right next door in the same school. Many of them are doing a wonderful job at educating kids. I dare say that even the worst are still turning out some educated kids who end up successful.

    Lets get an education system in this country and then we can evaluate it and discuss it. Until that time, it is impossible.
    I have no problem with different paths, as long as the goals are clear and standards are met. We lived for a few years in a small town in Idaho, with mostly farmers on the school board, and an exjock as superintendent. Standards were low in academics, but high in sports...
    Parental expectations, IMO, is the primary issue that frustrates good teachers. When the student CAN, but won't, and parents won't get involved, what can you do?
    Oracle of Utah
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