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Thread: Warren Buffet: 'Trickle Down' Theory Doesn't Work

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    Re: Warren Buffet: 'Trickle Down' Theory Doesn't Work

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    It couldn't be the fault of mediocre schools and the fact that we can't fire teachers. No way.

    But as for a real argument, why do private schools do better than public schools, even though public schools send way more per pupil?

    The Real Cost of Public Schools | Andrew J. Coulson | Cato Institute: Commentary
    Interesting that your leanings show Libertarian as does Golden Boy. It does appear to me that of the two of you, Golden Boy doesn't have a clue what a Libertarian economic beliefs are.

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    Re: Warren Buffet: 'Trickle Down' Theory Doesn't Work

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    It couldn't be the fault of mediocre schools and the fact that we can't fire teachers. No way.

    But as for a real argument, why do private schools do better than public schools, even though public schools send way more per pupil?

    The Real Cost of Public Schools | Andrew J. Coulson | Cato Institute: Commentary
    Do you seriously have any real knowledge based on practical real world experience about firing teachers? And screeds from the Cato folks do not count.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Warren Buffet: 'Trickle Down' Theory Doesn't Work

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Do you seriously have any real knowledge based on practical real world experience about firing teachers? And screeds from the Cato folks do not count.
    Do you have any real responses? I've dealt with you before and you've done the same thing. I'm about ready to put you on ignore. I disagree with Goldenboy all the time and he gets on my nerves, but I don't put him on ignore. Know the difference? He offers good arguments (though he sometimes stoops to your level), all you do is post this kind of gibberish that doesn't answer my contention. Come up with a real response, admit that my argument is worthwhile, or I'll never respond to you again. Your choice.

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    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Warren Buffet: 'Trickle Down' Theory Doesn't Work

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Do you have any real responses? I've dealt with you before and you've done the same thing. I'm about ready to put you on ignore. I disagree with Goldenboy all the time and he gets on my nerves, but I don't put him on ignore. Know the difference? He offers good arguments (though he sometimes stoops to your level), all you do is post this kind of gibberish that doesn't answer my contention. Come up with a real response, admit that my argument is worthwhile, or I'll never respond to you again. Your choice.
    You mentioned firing teachers and I asked you if you really knew anything about the real world situation involved in firing teachers.
    It has been my experience that when this subject is opened up for discussion, many people who post articles like you did have not the slightest idea what they are talking about and only get their "information" from ideologically skewed sources who also do not know what they are talking about.

    I have 33 years of experience in this field and would be happy to share it.

    In your post you said this

    It couldn't be the fault of mediocre schools and the fact that we can't fire teachers. No way.
    I would love to see your actual evidence of what you call "mediocre schools", how you define that term, what makes them mediocre and even more to see your evidence that "we can't fire teachers". Having spent over three decades as a teacher and over two decades of those as a union representative working in this area, I have knowledge to share. If it is knowledge and real world experience you are interested in.
    Last edited by haymarket; 12-04-10 at 09:20 AM.
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    Re: Warren Buffet: 'Trickle Down' Theory Doesn't Work

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You mentioned firing teachers and I asked you if you really knew anything about the real world situation involved in firing teachers.
    It has been my experience that when this subject is opened up for discussion, many people who post articles like you did have not the slightest idea what they are talking about and only get their "information" from ideologically skewed sources who also do not know what they are talking about.

    I have 33 years of experience in this field and would be happy to share it.
    You just did it again, you enormous boob.

    ----
    General answer to this recent topic change...

    The fact is how much you spend on students is not the answer, it never was. The answer is caring, its better explaining of topics, its less of a crowd, its the one on one experience, its understanding that kids learn differently. You need to sit with just two children, maybe your own, and you will find they go about not only life differently, but learning, and this difference is what teachers need to learn, accept and make no excuses when its ignored. Sure, the kid might not care, but most kids get to the point of not caring not because they really don't care, but because they are hopelessly lost, which is undoubtedly caused by bad teaching. Do people really want to know why private schools beat out public schools? Caring, it's that simple.

    To answer haymarkets question of mediocre schools, its simple, the pace is too fast, the attention to the kids is limited if there at all, the topics aren't explained, the attention to learning differences is nonexistent and kids are ignored.
    Last edited by Henrin; 12-04-10 at 09:57 AM.

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    Re: Warren Buffet: 'Trickle Down' Theory Doesn't Work

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    You just did it again, you enormous boob.

    ----
    General answer to this recent topic change...

    The fact is how much you spend on students is not the answer, it never was. The answer is caring, its better explaining of topics, its less of a crowd, its the one on one experience, its understanding that kids learn differently. You need to sit with just two children, maybe your own, and you will find they go about not only life differently, but learning, and this difference is what teachers need to learn, accept and make no excuses when its ignored. Sure, the kid might not care, but most kids get to the point of not caring not because they really don't care, but because they are hopelessly lost, which is undoubtedly caused by bad teaching. Do people really want to know why private schools beat out public schools? Caring, it's that simple.

    To answer haymarkets question of mediocre schools, its simple, the pace is too fast, the attention to the kids is limited if there at all, the topics aren't explained, the attention to learning differences is nonexistent and kids are ignored.
    Not one thing in your posts documents or supports any sort of problem in firing "bad teachers" in "mediocre schools.As for your "analysis" and simple conclusion, your statements are based on what exactly?

    For what it is worth - everything you discuss - caring, one on one, explaining things, recognizing differences, - all that has been part of a teachers curriculum for a very long time now in colleges and universities which train teachers. This are basic teacher skills and techniques that are not new, not any secret, are not revolutionary and certainly are not unheard of. There are part and parcel of everyday teaching and have been for a long time.

    I would hope any discussion on this topic is fact based and not belief based. The basis for any intelligent discussion is to be able to offer evidence to show that what your saying is true and not merely conjecture, rumor or just what passes for common knowledge among certain people who believe because they want to believe what they believe.
    Last edited by haymarket; 12-04-10 at 11:16 AM.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Warren Buffet: 'Trickle Down' Theory Doesn't Work

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Not one thing in your posts documents or supports any sort of problem in firing "bad teachers" in "mediocre schools.As for your "analysis" and simple conclusion, your statements are based on what exactly?
    Public schools are mediocre. The funding and students of certain areas might make certain schools worse than others but the teachers are most likely going to be of about the same skill and the situations that make good education impossible are going to still be present.

    For what it is worth - everything you discuss - caring, one on one, explaining things, recognizing differences, - all that has been part of a teachers curriculum for a very long time now in colleges and universities which train teachers. This are basic teacher skills and techniques that are not new, not any secret, are not revolutionary and certainly are not unheard of. There are part and parcel of everyday teaching and have been for a long time.
    So that is why no one practices it in public schooling. Hmm? Is this why when a kid falls behind everyone finds out they actually have A.D.D and they are put in retard class? Oh sorry, that is a secret.

    I would hope any discussion on this topic is fact based and not belief based. The basis for any intelligent discussion is to be able to offer evidence to show that what your saying is true and not merely conjecture, rumor or just what passes for common knowledge among certain people who believe because they want to believe what they believe.
    What have you done my good man? All I've have seen so far of worth is in the last paragraph. All the rest is you being worthless, and a dick. I hope all that experience you say you have wasn't you being as worthless as you are here.

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    Re: Warren Buffet: 'Trickle Down' Theory Doesn't Work

    from Henrin

    Public schools are mediocre.
    Which of the thousands upon thousands of different public schools in different systems in different states are you talking about here? For your charge to have any meaning it must be narrowed down and become specific. To attack "public schools" is so vague and so wide that it is meaningless.

    The funding and students of certain areas might make certain schools worse than others but the teachers are most likely going to be of about the same skill and the situations that make good education impossible are going to still be present.
    What evidence do you have that teachers are going to be of the same skill level?
    What "situations that make good education impossible" are you referring to?

    In response to your 'analysis' of what schools needed, I said this to you

    For what it is worth - everything you discuss - caring, one on one, explaining things, recognizing differences, - all that has been part of a teachers curriculum for a very long time now in colleges and universities which train teachers. This are basic teacher skills and techniques that are not new, not any secret, are not revolutionary and certainly are not unheard of. There are part and parcel of everyday teaching and have been for a long time.

    your response
    So that is why no one practices it in public schooling. Hmm? Is this why when a kid falls behind everyone finds out they actually have A.D.D and they are put in retard class? Oh sorry, that is a secret.
    Where do you get this idea that "no one practices it in public schooling"? What do you base this allegation on?

    Using such a term as "a retard class" is an insult to anyone in special education - both the teaching staff and the students. Please refrain from such insults in the future. The education of students with identified disabilties such ad ADD or ADHD or any other disabilities is hardly any secret and is part of the public record and can be easilly researched if you care to do so.

    What have you done my good man? All I've have seen so far of worth is in the last paragraph. All the rest is you being worthless, and a dick. I hope all that experience you say you have wasn't you being as worthless as you are here.
    You having to resort to personal insults and the calling of playground names simply because I differ with your 'analysis' says volumes about yourself.

    As I have said, if you want an honest and fact based discussion about removing teachers from the job, I have vast experience with this topic and spent over two decades involved in over a dozen such cases. I can tell you how the process works, and why sometimes it produces results and why sometimes it does not produce results.

    But that is based on you or anyone else actually being interested in the real world facts behind the issue and not merely ideological talking points based on belief or ones agenda.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Warren Buffet: 'Trickle Down' Theory Doesn't Work

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    What evidence do you have that teachers are going to be of the same skill level?
    What "situations that make good education impossible" are you referring to?
    umm..reading.

    Where do you get this idea that "no one practices it in public schooling"? What do you base this allegation on?
    Where is it? They teach in groups of thirties. They teach as fast as they can. They don't think of kids on how they learn but on how much they know. Its not even close to how I said it should be done.

    Using such a term as "a retard class" is an insult to anyone in special education - both the teaching staff and the students.

    Please refrain from such insults in the future. The education of students with identified disabilties such ad ADD or ADHD or any other disabilities is hardly any secret and is part of the public record and can be easilly researched if you care to do so.
    Who do you think you are talking to right now? You think I don't have experience with this pile I brought up? Is that what you think? You think I actually NEED to look up this stuff up? Why don't you get a clue. Buy one or something, I will sell one to you free if I have too, but please get one. The class was and the disabilities like A.D.D. and A.D.H.D. was created to throw kids to the side of the road to make the school look better. NOTHING happens in the class of value. PERIOD. The kids don't get help, they don't get caught up, they don't get anything of value. They are left to rot, so they aren't a problem for the school and their funding. The secret IS the purpose of the class, it IS what actually happens in the class, it IS the creation of the disabilities. Stop talking to me like I don't have experience, that I haven't looked in to it over the years since my experience with it. I called the class retard class, because that is what YOU PEOPLE treat it as. In case you are so unbelievably dense you can't realize it, I'm using the term "retard class" to insult the CLASS. I KNOW what it is all about. Do you? I hope you honestly don't because otherwise you have pissed me off.

    You having to resort to personal insults and the calling of playground names simply because I differ with your 'analysis' says volumes about yourself.
    It says volumes of actual your experience and knowledge that you haven't done anything of worth in this debate but say you can. DO IT ALREADY! What the hell are you waiting for? You clearly can't.

    As I have said, if you want an honest and fact based discussion about removing teachers from the job, I have vast experience with this topic and spent over two decades involved in over a dozen such cases. I can tell you how the process works, and why sometimes it produces results and why sometimes it does not produce results.
    And you continue to talk with nothing backing you up. For a person with all this knowledge you say you have sure aren't showing it.
    But that is based on you or anyone else actually being interested in the real world facts behind the issue and not merely ideological talking points based on belief or ones agenda.
    Oh yes, you have shown me facts oh 33 years of experience guy. Where are they again?
    Last edited by Henrin; 12-04-10 at 12:58 PM.

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    Re: Warren Buffet: 'Trickle Down' Theory Doesn't Work

    Henrin

    I will be happy to inform you of anything you need to be informed about in the field of education. Just ask and I will answer.

    As to your rantings about schools, I do not know what you base this on. You claim "reading". Reading what exactly?

    You slur kids in special education classrooms calling them retards and then blast others for you doing so. That is less than honest and certainly cowardly since it was your own word.

    With each subsequent post you make, you are becoming more agitated and more frustrated and less rational.

    you state this

    Stop talking to me like I don't have experience, that I haven't looked in to it over the years since my experience with it.
    I will be glad to stop talking to you like you don't have any experience once you either clarify for me what your actual experience is and then write presenting the true picture of education reflecting that experience. I am mor than happy to listen to you present both.
    Last edited by haymarket; 12-04-10 at 01:38 PM.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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