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Thread: Were the Bush Tax Cuts Good for Growth?

  1. #131
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    Re: Were the Bush Tax Cuts Good for Growth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Since when did you ever care about what our Founding Fathers said or did? they also promoted a small central govt, personal responsibility, and built this country on religious principles. The Founding Fathers knew that power corrupts and that is why they put the power in the states with the individuals. Bush tax cuts empowered people and generated strong economic growth. You and others love to point to the low job creation but ignore that Bush job creation was good excluding the recession he inherited and the 2008 which happened with the help of the Democrat Congress. Why don't supporters of Obama get the actual results instead of just selective cherrypicking of data?
    My statement was not a measure of how much one "cares". It was a statement of fact. It was a product of the head and not the heart.

    Your characterization of what the FF did is most interesting. I remember them as creating a much stronger national government than the one that preceded it. I remember strict divisions between church and state.

    Perhaps you are thinking of a different nation than I am?
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  2. #132
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    Re: Were the Bush Tax Cuts Good for Growth?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    My statement was not a measure of how much one "cares". It was a statement of fact. It was a product of the head and not the heart.

    Your characterization of what the FF did is most interesting. I remember them as creating a much stronger national government than the one that preceded it. I remember strict divisions between church and state.

    Perhaps you are thinking of a different nation than I am?
    Perhaps you didn't really study history but it came to you in a dream. Our Founding Fathers created a Constitution that you should really read as it is quite interesting and telling. Amazing how Promote the Domestic Welfare today means provide the Domestic Welfare. Amazing how there is no separation of church and amazing how marriage isn't defined in the Constitution as a civil right. Our Founders got it right, today liberals are destroying what they did.

  3. #133
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    Re: Were the Bush Tax Cuts Good for Growth?

    If anybody thinks we need to do away with seperation of church and state, I would suggest you look at the middle east....
    The LAST thing we need is a bunch of "holy" men mixing in with a bunch of politicians. The speed at which ordinary citizen becomes crook will triple overnight...it will be a contest as to which group corrupts the other group the most..
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  4. #134
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    Re: Were the Bush Tax Cuts Good for Growth?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    If anybody thinks we need to do away with seperation of church and state, I would suggest you look at the middle east....
    The LAST thing we need is a bunch of "holy" men mixing in with a bunch of politicians. The speed at which ordinary citizen becomes crook will triple overnight...it will be a contest as to which group corrupts the other group the most..
    Our Founders built this country on religious princples and to deny that is what has created the mess we have today. Today we have Freedom OF Religion not Freedom FROM Religion and where how far we carry that comes from the individual not a Central Govt. There is no separation of Church and State in the Constitution. Please review that and correct me where I am wrong.

  5. #135
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    Re: Were the Bush Tax Cuts Good for Growth?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    My statement was not a measure of how much one "cares". It was a statement of fact. It was a product of the head and not the heart.

    Your characterization of what the FF did is most interesting. I remember them as creating a much stronger national government than the one that preceded it. I remember strict divisions between church and state.

    Perhaps you are thinking of a different nation than I am?
    Here is a good article that refutes those so called "facts" of yours. What liberals want to focus on are those that did indeed believe in a strong central govt. NOT the govt. that was actually created. Only in the area of National Defense did our Founders empower a strong Central Govt.

    Limited Government is Essential to Preserve Liberty - HUMAN EVENTS

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    Re: Were the Bush Tax Cuts Good for Growth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Our Founders built this country on religious princples and to deny that is what has created the mess we have today. Today we have Freedom OF Religion not Freedom FROM Religion and where how far we carry that comes from the individual not a Central Govt. There is no separation of Church and State in the Constitution. Please review that and correct me where I am wrong.
    There is also NO INCLUSION of church and state working together to govern....they had that in Europe, where the Pope had a huge say in govt affairs, and the churches did not care much about improving the plight of the peasantry. Donations came from the haves, not the have nots, so who do you think gets sucked up to....

    Freedom FROM religion is included under Freedom OF religion....no religion has the right to force others to be part of it. Do you hear the calls to prayers over loudspeakers from your local mosque? Do you want local churches that you don't attend assessing you for obligatory donations?
    Name one religious leader in the USA who you would trust to help run this country...
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  7. #137
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    Re: Were the Bush Tax Cuts Good for Growth?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    If anybody thinks we need to do away with seperation of church and state, I would suggest you look at the middle east....
    The LAST thing we need is a bunch of "holy" men mixing in with a bunch of politicians. The speed at which ordinary citizen becomes crook will triple overnight...it will be a contest as to which group corrupts the other group the most..
    The topic of this thread is "Were the Bush Tax Cuts Good for Growth" and the facts show that indeed they were.

    U.S. Department of Commerce. Bureau of Economic Analysis

    Some love showing how bad things were in 2008 yet the economy actually grew until the end of the year and we still ended up with a 14.4 trillion dollar economy. Compare that to the end of 2009 and then compare the economic plan put into place by Obama vs that of GW Bush. Here is the comparison between tax cuts for both. Pretty easy to see why the Obama tax cuts didn't really benefit the economy, too targeted and actually ignores the private sector.

    Obama Tax cuts

    Total: $288 billion

    [edit] Tax cuts for individuals

    Total: $237 billion
    • $116 billion: New payroll tax credit of $400 per worker and $800 per couple in 2009 and 2010. Phaseout begins at $75,000 for individuals and $150,000 for joint filers.[29]
    • $70 billion: Alternative minimum tax: a one year increase in AMT floor to $70,950 for joint filers for 2009.[29]
    • $15 billion: Expansion of child tax credit: A $1,000 credit to more families (even those that do not make enough money to pay income taxes).
    • $14 billion: Expanded college credit to provide a $2,500 expanded tax credit for college tuition and related expenses for 2009 and 2010. The credit is phased out for couples making more than $160,000.
    • $6.6 billion: Homebuyer credit: $8,000 refundable credit for all homes bought between 1/1/2009 and 12/1/2009 and repayment provision repealed for homes purchased in 2009 and held more than three years. This only applies to first-time homebuyers.[41]
    • $4.7 billion: Excluding from taxation the first $2,400 a person receives in unemployment compensation benefits in 2009.
    • $4.7 billion: Expanded earned income tax credit to increase the earned income tax credit — which provides money to low income workers — for families with at least three children.
    • $4.3 billion: Home energy credit to provide an expanded credit to homeowners who make their homes more energy-efficient in 2009 and 2010. Homeowners could recoup 30 percent of the cost up to $1,500 of numerous projects, such as installing energy-efficient windows, doors, furnaces and air conditioners.
    • $1.7 billion: for deduction of sales tax from car purchases, not interest payments phased out for incomes above $250,000.

    Bush Tax cuts

    Between 2001 and 2003, the Bush administration instituted a federal tax cut for all taxpayers. Among other changes, the lowest income tax rate was lowered from 15% to 10%, the 27% rate went to 25%, the 30% rate went to 28%, the 35% rate went to 33%, and the top marginal tax rate went from 39.6% to 35%.[3] In addition, the child tax credit went from $500 to $1000, and the "marriage penalty" was reduced. Since the cuts were implemented as part of the annual congressional budget resolution, which protected the bill from filibusters, numerous amendments, and more than 20 hours of debate, it had to include a sunset clause. Unless congress passes legislation making the tax cuts permanent, they will expire in 2011.

  8. #138
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    Re: Were the Bush Tax Cuts Good for Growth?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    There is also NO INCLUSION of church and state working together to govern....they had that in Europe, where the Pope had a huge say in govt affairs, and the churches did not care much about improving the plight of the peasantry. Donations came from the haves, not the have nots, so who do you think gets sucked up to....

    Freedom FROM religion is included under Freedom OF religion....no religion has the right to force others to be part of it. Do you hear the calls to prayers over loudspeakers from your local mosque? Do you want local churches that you don't attend assessing you for obligatory donations?
    Name one religious leader in the USA who you would trust to help run this country...
    Who said there was? Freedom FROM Religion isn't the same as Freedom OF Religion, Freedom OF Religion gives you the right to worship as you want and that is the issue. Freedom FROM Religion isn't in the Constitution but Freedom OF Religion is.

    Most of our Presidents were religious but not religious leaders. Most of the people in this country claim to be religious and believe in God, I certainly do but that is for another thread as is this discussion. Just had to respond to this off topic post. I trust those that believe in religion a lot more than those who don't as the basics of our country rely on discipline and laws neither of which are promoted by the non religious.

  9. #139
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    Re: Were the Bush Tax Cuts Good for Growth?

    from Conservative in his lecture to me about the real meaning of the US Constitution

    Amazing how there is no separation of church and amazing how marriage isn't defined in the Constitution as a civil right
    Did you leave something out from that? "there is no separation of church and amazing .....". i will admit that I have been is some churches which are amazing - St. Patricks Cathedral in NY City for one - and in my copy of the Constitution they certainly do not mention 'church and amazing'.

    If you are intending to say "church and state" there is a failed US Senate candidate now standing over a steaming cauldron who agrees with you. Take solace in that.
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  10. #140
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    Re: Were the Bush Tax Cuts Good for Growth?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    from Conservative in his lecture to me about the real meaning of the US Constitution



    Did you leave something out from that? "there is no separation of church and amazing .....". i will admit that I have been is some churches which are amazing - St. Patricks Cathedral in NY City for one - and in my copy of the Constitution they certainly do not mention 'church and amazing'.

    If you are intending to say "church and state" there is a failed US Senate candidate now standing over a steaming cauldron who agrees with you. Take solace in that.
    What is amazing how you and others continue to promote that myth of "Separation of Church and State" which says it all. If I were you, I would be afraid of religion as well but carry on diverting from the Constitution that we have vs. the one the Liberal media and others want us to have. It must be a lonely world you live in that you have such little faith in anything. My faith gives me strength and a better understanding of personal responsibility and discipline. Carry on diverting from this thread topic.

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