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Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

Goldenboy219;1059109253]There is a major difference between a recession that resulted from curbing inflation, and a recession that rendered the global financial system insolvent without bailouts. China enacted a stimulus package that was nearly 10% of GDP, and they were not nearly as shaken as the US.

China's economy is not like the U.S. whereas ours is based upon free enterprise and capitalism, not state controlled, quasi socialist economy thus needing less govt. spending to get us out of a recession, Tax cuts and support for the private sector would have done that. Very little was spent from February to June 2009 and still we came out of recession. The Obama spending kicked in and did little good at all because of the targeted nature towards people who don't pay any taxes thus a transfer of tax payments from those that do pay taxes to those that don't. No net gain to the taxpayers.


Private insurance companies can easily compete with a public option because they have the ability to offer policies tailored to the individual, and from that they derive a great deal of value. As it stands, 62% of bankruptcies in the U.S. are health care related. Physical and mental health is a critical component to a productive workforce, and this extends beyond the job, e.g. employee dependents. The average cost of an independent health care plan for a family of 4 is around $16,000, and that excludes medical deductibles, out of pocket expenses, etc....

Private insurance cannot compete with the govt. as private insurance cannot print money nor can private insurance operate without a profit. Govt. can do both and the ultimate goal of the govt. is single payer thus govt. control.

Our health care system operates on the basis of unsustainable price increases.


Then tell me why 111 waivers were issued allowing entities to opt out of Obamacare. I don't think you understand the private sector at all and the low profit margins of the healthcare business
 
China's economy is not like the U.S. whereas ours is based upon free enterprise and capitalism, not state controlled, quasi socialist economy thus needing less govt. spending to get us out of a recession, Tax cuts and support for the private sector would have done that.

You show little understanding of capitalism, and its relationship to business cycle frequency. In a truly socialist country, consumer demand takes on static properties due to extensive social safety nets that minimize labor market volatility. Nations with extensive social safety nets do not require "hydrualic keynesianism" to minimize the effects of downward nominal wage rigitities. China's situation was different because they depend on exports, but the goal of their fiscal policy was to stimulate domestic demand.

Cutting taxes during a period of consumer deleveraging is a poor idea. If the money is not spent, it manifests into an increased deficit without boosting demand.

Very little was spent from February to June 2009 and still we came out of recession.

The Federal Reserve tripled its balance sheet, and brought short term interest rates close to zero. Monetary stimulus was successful in minimizing output losses, but in and of itself is unable to spur labor market demand. Government spending during a time when private business spending has seemingly evaporated does create demand by creating jobs.

The Obama spending kicked in and did little good at all because of the targeted nature towards people who don't pay any taxes thus a transfer of tax payments from those that do pay taxes to those that don't. No net gain to the taxpayers.

The premise behind fiscal stimulus is to create demand, not provide a "net gain" for taxpayers.

Private insurance cannot compete with the govt. as private insurance cannot print money nor can private insurance operate without a profit. Govt. can do both and the ultimate goal of the govt. is single payer thus govt. control.

UPS and Fed Ex are very successful, even though the US Post Office is their direct competition. How do they exist?

Then tell me why 111 waivers were issued allowing entities to opt out of Obamacare. I don't think you understand the private sector at all and the low profit margins of the healthcare business

Again. It is weak health care reform.
 
You show little understanding of capitalism, and its relationship to business cycle frequency. In a truly socialist country, consumer demand takes on static properties due to extensive social safety nets that minimize labor market volatility. Nations with extensive social safety nets do not require "hydrualic keynesianism" to minimize the effects of downward nominal wage rigitities. China's situation was different because they depend on exports, but the goal of their fiscal policy was to stimulate domestic demand.

Cutting taxes during a period of consumer deleveraging is a poor idea. If the money is not spent, it manifests into an increased deficit without boosting demand.



The Federal Reserve tripled its balance sheet, and brought short term interest rates close to zero. Monetary stimulus was successful in minimizing output losses, but in and of itself is unable to spur labor market demand. Government spending during a time when private business spending has seemingly evaporated does create demand by creating jobs.



The premise behind fiscal stimulus is to create demand, not provide a "net gain" for taxpayers.



UPS and Fed Ex are very successful, even though the US Post Office is their direct competition. How do they exist?



Again. It is weak health care reform.



You are absolutely correct, I have no idea how the private sector works and nothing about capitalism as I just wasted 35 years in the private sector and actually ran a 200 million dollar a year business. All my employees will be shocked to here that I faked it all those years. I will certainly bow to your superior expertise and superior intelligence as I find you to be a true legend in your own mind.

It does seem to me that you have spent a lot of time on theory and with your nose stuck in a textbook. Too bad you didn't put your brains to better use. You don't have a clue how human behavior works and how that affects our economy. We are talking about two different things here, the fed pumping money into the system and Obama spending money on a stimulus plan that did nothing to stimulate the economy. Instead all it did was stimulate debt.

If you want to know how UPS and FedEx work I suggest you get your nose out of the economics book and do some research. The P.O. is a perfect example of a complete failure of a govt. run entity. No business could lose billions and stay in business. UPS and FedEx offer unique services that the post office doesn't but could not survive for long the red ink that the P.O. generates every year.

Sounds like you want a single payer system. Wonder if your ego will allow you to consider the possiblity that you could be wrong, then what?
 
You are absolutely correct, I have no idea how the private sector works and nothing about capitalism as I just wasted 35 years in the private sector and actually ran a 200 million dollar a year business.

This is a straw-man combined with a red-herring and an anecdotal fallacy. Just because you make the claim on an internet forum about your personal business expertise does not equate to a relevant understanding of macroeconomics. What it shows is you claim to have a relevant understanding of your particular market segment, but not the mechanics behind markets in general.

All my employees will be shocked to here that I faked it all those years. I will certainly bow to your superior expertise and superior intelligence as I find you to be a true legend in your own mind.

Please cite any and all instances of invalidity regarding the particular subjects we have discussed. What i have found is that you take the inaccuracies portrayed on talk raido and Fox News as truth, when the information has been perverted to fit within an ideological framework.

It does seem to me that you have spent a lot of time on theory and with your nose stuck in a textbook. Too bad you didn't put your brains to better use. You don't have a clue how human behavior works and how that affects our economy. We are talking about two different things here, the fed pumping money into the system and Obama spending money on a stimulus plan that did nothing to stimulate the economy. Instead all it did was stimulate debt.

I have continually analyzed human behavior within the context of financial economic analysis. Simply stating that lower taxes create economic growth ignores the behavioral economic reality. For example, if a country lowers taxes and does not cut spending, the instantaneous short run result is increased deficit spending. To show that lower taxes create growth, you need to isolate a whole slew of other dependent variables such as government spending, saving rates, capital mobility, productivity, money multipliers, inflation, etc... to determine the economic effects of a tax cut.

If you want to know how UPS and FedEx work I suggest you get your nose out of the economics book and do some research. The P.O. is a perfect example of a complete failure of a govt. run entity. No business could lose billions and stay in business. UPS and FedEx offer unique services that the post office doesn't but could not survive for long the red ink that the P.O. generates every year.

This contradicts your previous assertion about a public option, and how private underwriting practices cannot compete with an entity that does not have to turn a profit. The bold sentence is incoherent. UPS and FedEx derive value by offering products and services that are more efficient or innovative in the same way that private insurance companies offer policies that are more tailored to individual needs and demands. Unless you believe that the government provides better quality than the private sector, private firms will have no problem competing with inefficient government agencies.

Sounds like you want a single payer system. Wonder if your ego will allow you to consider the possiblity that you could be wrong, then what?

There is no need for a single payer system, as our private sector is quite capable of deriving value for their products.
 
Goldenboy219;1059121773]This is a straw-man combined with a red-herring and an anecdotal fallacy. Just because you make the claim on an internet forum about your personal business expertise does not equate to a relevant understanding of macroeconomics. What it shows is you claim to have a relevant understanding of your particular market segment, but not the mechanics behind markets in general.

Whether or not you believe a word I say is irrelevant to me because all I see here is someone who spent most of their time with their nose in a book and is out of touch with reality and the real world. Doubt that you have added anything of value to the economy.

Please cite any and all instances of invalidity regarding the particular subjects we have discussed. What i have found is that you take the inaccuracies portrayed on talk raido and Fox News as truth, when the information has been perverted to fit within an ideological framework.

You provide a lot of generalities and never any specifics. What exactly has Fox News promoted that is inaccurate or perverted? I await for something of value from you.

I have posted actual data from non partisan sites and you counter with some textbook answer that doesn’t relate to reality.

I have continually analyzed human behavior within the context of financial economic analysis. Simply stating that lower taxes create economic growth ignores the behavioral economic reality. For example, if a country lowers taxes and does not cut spending, the instantaneous short run result is increased deficit spending. To show that lower taxes create growth, you need to isolate a whole slew of other dependent variables such as government spending, saving rates, capital mobility, productivity, money multipliers, inflation, etc... to determine the economic effects of a tax cut.

Translation: I have spent my life buried in a textbook. What you ignore is that tax cuts allow people to keep more of their money and is not related to the govt. spending more money. Individuals have no control over what politicians spend and individuals don’t have the ability to cut govt. spending. Individuals do have the opportunity to spend more of their own money when the govt. allows them to keep more.

What I showed is that GDP growth occurs when people spend more of what they earn and that when people get to keep more take home pay human behavior kicks in and that is shown in consumer spending, the largest by far component of GDP. That promotes higher corporate profits thus higher taxes and also promotes higher demand thus more jobs.

This contradicts your previous assertion about a public option, and how private underwriting practices cannot compete with an entity that does not have to turn a profit. The bold sentence is incoherent. UPS and FedEx derive value by offering products and services that are more efficient or innovative in the same way that private insurance companies offer policies that are more tailored to individual needs and demands. Unless you believe that the government provides better quality than the private sector, private firms will have no problem competing with inefficient government agencies.

Nothing I posted was contradicted by my post. Govt. doesn’t have to make a profit, never has and never will. It just prints more money. There is no comparison between the U.S. Post Office and FedEx or UPS. The U.S. Post Office was created by the Federal Govt. and is funded by the Federal Govt. They answer to know one and constantly run in the red. No business is ever going to compete against a Federal entity as that would be like a duck competing with an alligator.

There is no need for a single payer system, as our private sector is quite capable of deriving value for their products

That is the goal of liberals and they are doing that incrementally by putting in place a healthcare program destined to fail. When 30-40 million more people are unable to get quality service and that puts added pressure on an already burdened private system, these people will be crying of a govt. solution and thus here comes the single payer system.

No, get out in the real world a little bit more and see what is really going on.
 
Whether or not you believe a word I say is irrelevant to me because all I see here is someone who spent most of their time with their nose in a book and is out of touch with reality and the real world. Doubt that you have added anything of value to the economy.

Your perception of me is irrelevant to this discussion. You have consistently disagreed on the basis of opinion, providing limited (at best) statistical analysis.

You provide a lot of generalities and never any specifics. What exactly has Fox News promoted that is inaccurate or perverted? I await for something of value from you.

In the red, you engage in the same manner of which i am being accused of. :lol: Political pundits on Fox News have repeatedly stated that increased payroll taxes increase the cost of labor. You claim to have ran a large business; if a person is making $40/hr and their tax bracket jumps by 3%, is the company paying anything more than $40/hr as a result of the payroll tax increase?

I have posted actual data from non partisan sites and you counter with some textbook answer that doesn’t relate to reality.

You have provided claims in regards to raw data, and your analysis in no way supports those claims. Time to step up!

Translation: I have spent my life buried in a textbook. What you ignore is that tax cuts allow people to keep more of their money and is not related to the govt. spending more money. Individuals have no control over what politicians spend and individuals don’t have the ability to cut govt. spending. Individuals do have the opportunity to spend more of their own money when the govt. allows them to keep more.

Typical response. Attack me on a personal level and then repeat the same old rhetoric. I never doubted that individuals have the opportunnity to spend more given tax cuts, only that increased private spending does not always result from tax cuts, e.g. the Bush Tax Cuts.

What I showed is that GDP growth occurs when people spend more of what they earn

You have yet to provide the forum with anything that supports the notion that tax cuts result in people spending more of what they earn. On the contrary, there is an amazing amount of literature showing that people save more when tax cuts are funded via deficits (cutting taxes while increasing spending).

and that when people get to keep more take home pay human behavior kicks in and that is shown in consumer spending, the largest by far component of GDP.

Do your best to provide data and analysis that contends that increases in consumer spending are the result of tax cuts. As a rule consumption increases, as real wages increase. Tax cuts funded by deficit spending do not increase real wages.

That promotes higher corporate profits thus higher taxes and also promotes higher demand thus more jobs.

Only if you assume the nominal value of the tax cuts are spent in the real economy.

Something interesting to note; what happens when tax cuts are spent in the real economy, but the trajectory flows into an asset bubble such as real estate?

Nothing I posted was contradicted by my post. Govt. doesn’t have to make a profit, never has and never will.

Agreed.

It just prints more money.

Incorrect, money is created in banks.

There is no comparison between the U.S. Post Office and FedEx or UPS.

They operate in the same market, yet despite the fact that the post office does not have to show a profit, UPS ad FedEx do rather well.

The U.S. Post Office was created by the Federal Govt. and is funded by the Federal Govt. They answer to know one and constantly run in the red.

Agreed, but how does this support your statement?

No business is ever going to compete against a Federal entity as that would be like a duck competing with an alligator.

Incorrect. UPS and FedEx compete with the U.S. Post Office on a daily basis.

That is the goal of liberals and they are doing that incrementally by putting in place a healthcare program destined to fail.

This belongs in the conspiracy theory subforum. The goal of liberals is to harm people:shock:

When 30-40 million more people are unable to get quality service and that puts added pressure on an already burdened private system, these people will be crying of a govt. solution and thus here comes the single payer system.

A single payer system requires government to assume any and all health care costs for all citizens regardless of income. I am not arguing for such a system, so lay off of the red herring.

No, get out in the real world a little bit more and see what is really going on.

You are in no position to make a determination of what i do when i am not posting on this message board. Can you make it a point to refrain from bringing up your perception of me, and instead focus on the actual discussion? After all, it is the mature thing to do.
 
Your perception of me is irrelevant to this discussion. You have consistently disagreed on the basis of opinion, providing limited (at best) statistical analysis.



In the red, you engage in the same manner of which i am being accused of. :lol: Political pundits on Fox News have repeatedly stated that increased payroll taxes increase the cost of labor. You claim to have ran a large business; if a person is making $40/hr and their tax bracket jumps by 3%, is the company paying anything more than $40/hr as a result of the payroll tax increase?



You have provided claims in regards to raw data, and your analysis in no way supports those claims. Time to step up!



Typical response. Attack me on a personal level and then repeat the same old rhetoric. I never doubted that individuals have the opportunnity to spend more given tax cuts, only that increased private spending does not always result from tax cuts, e.g. the Bush Tax Cuts.



You have yet to provide the forum with anything that supports the notion that tax cuts result in people spending more of what they earn. On the contrary, there is an amazing amount of literature showing that people save more when tax cuts are funded via deficits (cutting taxes while increasing spending).



Do your best to provide data and analysis that contends that increases in consumer spending are the result of tax cuts. As a rule consumption increases, as real wages increase. Tax cuts funded by deficit spending do not increase real wages.



Only if you assume the nominal value of the tax cuts are spent in the real economy.

Something interesting to note; what happens when tax cuts are spent in the real economy, but the trajectory flows into an asset bubble such as real estate?



Agreed.



Incorrect, money is created in banks.



They operate in the same market, yet despite the fact that the post office does not have to show a profit, UPS ad FedEx do rather well.



Agreed, but how does this support your statement?



Incorrect. UPS and FedEx compete with the U.S. Post Office on a daily basis.



This belongs in the conspiracy theory subforum. The goal of liberals is to harm people:shock:



A single payer system requires government to assume any and all health care costs for all citizens regardless of income. I am not arguing for such a system, so lay off of the red herring.



You are in no position to make a determination of what i do when i am not posting on this message board. Can you make it a point to refrain from bringing up your perception of me, and instead focus on the actual discussion? After all, it is the mature thing to do.

This discussion is going nowhere, tax cuts funded by deficit spending? I reject that flawed statement thus the rest of your post. Allowing people to keep more of what they earn isn't an expense to the govt, isn't a line item in the budget, and is nothing more than class envy from someone who believes the govt. needs the money more than the individual.

The mature thing to do is admit that you never ran a business, don't have a clue how the private sector works, and that you are really aren't a libertarian.
 
This discussion is going nowhere, tax cuts funded by deficit spending? I reject that flawed statement thus the rest of your post. Allowing people to keep more of what they earn isn't an expense to the govt, isn't a line item in the budget, and is nothing more than class envy from someone who believes the govt. needs the money more than the individual.

Of course not, you cannot slither your way out of making narrow-minded statements. When tax cuts are not accompanied by spending cuts, the government is forced to borrow. Not sure why you are having trouble understanding the concept.

The mature thing to do is admit that you never ran a business, don't have a clue how the private sector works, and that you are really aren't a libertarian.

I see you cannot help yourself from discussing me (you must be obsessed). It signifies the weakness of your position.
 
Of course not, you cannot slither your way out of making narrow-minded statements. When tax cuts are not accompanied by spending cuts, the government is forced to borrow. Not sure why you are having trouble understanding the concept.



I see you cannot help yourself from discussing me (you must be obsessed). It signifies the weakness of your position.

Total and complete bull****, tax cuts allow people to keep more of what they earn and has nothing to do with spending and in fact people keeping more of their own money needs less of that so called govt. help. You don't seem to understand the concept of personal responsibility at all which makes you a liberal not a libertarian.

I point out the obvious since I obviously am not as smart as someone who never ran a business, spent most of your life with your nose stuck in a book, and don't know how the private sector works. It is book smart street stupid individuals that have made a mess of this economy. I wish I could tell you what to do with your book smarts.
 
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It has been stated here that tax cuts are an expense to the Federal Govt. and has to be paid for. Obviously I reject that statement as I understand how the private sector economy works and people keeping more of their own money need less of that so called govt. help. Still I cannot get through to those who believe the govt. needs the money more than the individual taxpayer so let's take this right to the liberals. Let's say that you are right and that tax cuts bring in less money to the treasury even though the numbers don't support that but if it does, what do you do when you get less income? Most people would say they lower spending but not the govt. They just print or borrow more money never cutting spending. Make sense to anyone here?

Today the official unemployment number shows 16 million unemployed Americans so this Administration has done its part to cut govt. revenue. The government's problem is they are addicted to spending and have far too many believing that it is the government's role to provide for personal responsibility issues. I don't hear liberals ever talking about cutting spending. Makes me wonder why so many have such passion for taking more money from individuals and never holding govt. accountable for spending?

Think about it.
 
I'm always amused when people excuse Obama by pointing out that he inherited a bad economy, but then conveniently forget that our economy hit one or two minor bumps in the early years of Bush's presidency.

At least make an attempt to be consistent.

The difference is Bush-43 NEVER had a rapid 3-4 point dip in unemployment to contend with. Unemployment figures fluxuated between 4.0 and 6%. Not a fair nor accurate comparison at all, not even during the one or two brief recessions this country experienced during GW Bush's tenure. Try again.
 
The difference is Bush-43 NEVER had a rapid 3-4 point dip in unemployment to contend with. Unemployment figures fluxuated between 4.0 and 6%. Not a fair nor accurate comparison at all, not even during the one or two brief recessions this country experienced during GW Bush's tenure. Try again.

Yet you seem willing to buy the rhetoric from the Obama Administration. Obama took over an economy that came out of recession in June 2009. He forced the passage of a 800+ billion stimulus plan in February 2009 and yet today and every month of 2010 the unemployment numbers are higher than they were in 2009 or even 2008 at the heighth of the recession. How do you explain that?

BLS link, create own chart
Employment, Hours, and Earnings from the Current Employment Statistics survey (National)
 
What rhetoric? I'm just stating fact.

GW Bush never had to contend with a rapid drop in unemployment. By comparison, he had it pretty good.

As for unemployment numbers under Pres. Obama in relation to stimulus spending, granted the numbers haven't improved much, but progress is being made...slowly, but there is very clear evidence that the economy is recovering.

As for the BLS charts, no thanks. You post enough of them for all of us as it is. :roll:
 
What rhetoric? I'm just stating fact.

GW Bush never had to contend with a rapid drop in unemployment. By comparison, he had it pretty good.

As for unemployment numbers under Pres. Obama in relation to stimulus spending, granted the numbers haven't improved much, but progress is being made...slowly, but there is very clear evidence that the economy is recovering.

As for the BLS charts, no thanks. You post enough of them for all of us as it is. :roll:

So you make the claim that progress is being made but provide no evidence of that because you refuse to look at the official charts. Apparently you don't have a problem being wrong for if the unemployment is higher today than it was when the recession ended and after the stimulus bill was signed how could things be better and progress being made? You do realize that your comments put you in the cult following? Does it bother you that with all that spending we have these kind of results? How will we ever pay off that debt or do you not understand debt and its affect on the value of the dollar, inflation, and job creation?
 
Total and complete bull****, tax cuts allow people to keep more of what they earn and has nothing to do with spending and in fact people keeping more of their own money needs less of that so called govt. help.

Tax cuts have everything to do with government spending. Only a phony conservative would believe that cutting taxes and holding constant/increasing government spending is not only fiscally conservative, but fiscally responsible. Consider the very simple example:

Government revenue (year 1): 1000
Government spending (year 1): 1000
Fiscal Deficit: 0

Now suppose for year 2 that taxes are cut in the tune of 20%.

A fiscally responsible policy would also cut government spending by at least 20%; which would look like:

Government revenue (year 2): 800
Government spending (year 2): 800
Government deficit: 0

However, this is how the fake conservatives have behaved.

Government revenue (year 2): 800
Government spending (year 2): 1200
Government deficit (year 2): 400.

You don't seem to understand the concept of personal responsibility at all which makes you a liberal not a libertarian.

I understand personal responsibility quite well. You do not seem to understand what happens when taxes are cut and government spending increases. Fake conservatives talk out of their ass; demonizing deficit spending during a recession while engaging in deficit spending during economic expansion. Not the type of policy to hang your hat on.

I point out the obvious since I obviously am not as smart as someone who never ran a business, spent most of your life with your nose stuck in a book, and don't know how the private sector works. It is book smart street stupid individuals that have made a mess of this economy. I wish I could tell you what to do with your book smarts.

Why is it you cannot have a discussion with someone who does not agree with you without getting personal and making derogatory comments?
 
The government's problem is they are addicted to spending and have far too many believing that it is the government's role to provide for personal responsibility issues. I don't hear liberals ever talking about cutting spending. Makes me wonder why so many have such passion for taking more money from individuals and never holding govt. accountable for spending?

Think about it.

I have only heard conservatives talk about cutting government spending, and the only time we hear this is when there is an election coming, and they do not hold political power. But when they were in power, all they have done is act fiscally irresponsible.

Think about it.
 
Tax cuts have everything to do with government spending. Only a phony conservative would believe that cutting taxes and holding constant/increasing government spending is not only fiscally conservative, but fiscally responsible. Consider the very simple example:

Government revenue (year 1): 1000
Government spending (year 1): 1000
Fiscal Deficit: 0

Now suppose for year 2 that taxes are cut in the tune of 20%.

A fiscally responsible policy would also cut government spending by at least 20%; which would look like:

Government revenue (year 2): 800
Government spending (year 2): 800
Government deficit: 0

However, this is how the fake conservatives have behaved.

Government revenue (year 2): 800
Government spending (year 2): 1200
Government deficit (year 2): 400.



I understand personal responsibility quite well. You do not seem to understand what happens when taxes are cut and government spending increases. Fake conservatives talk out of their ass; demonizing deficit spending during a recession while engaging in deficit spending during economic expansion. Not the type of policy to hang your hat on.



Why is it you cannot have a discussion with someone who does not agree with you without getting personal and making derogatory comments?

You would never make it in the retail business. You think that businesses make money on sale items? No, they use sales items to get people into the store so they buy something else. Similar principle with tax cuts, creating more taxpayers and that is exactly what happened with both Bush and Reagan. Would you prefer 1 taxpayer paying $1 or 2 taxpayers paying .50 each? think about it. Your entire premise ignores human behaviror and the components of economic growth. We have a consumer driven economy that requires consumer spending which affects demand. Because of consumer spending demand goes up, corporate profits go up and thus you have more people paying taxes along with higher corporate profit taxes.

By the way who forces the govt. to spend more money? Do you honestly believe we need a 3.6 trillion dollar govt which was the 2009 budget?
 
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Fake conservatives talk out of their ass; demonizing deficit spending during a recession while engaging in deficit spending during economic expansion. Not the type of policy to hang your hat on.

Nitpick. Fake conservatives demonize Democrat deficit spending during a recession. Republican deficit spending is acceptable to them all of the time regardless of the economy.
 
I have only heard conservatives talk about cutting government spending, and the only time we hear this is when there is an election coming, and they do not hold political power. But when they were in power, all they have done is act fiscally irresponsible.

Think about it.

No question about it, Republicans spent too much during the Bush years, some of it understanable, 9/11, Katrina, Ike, Floyd, two wars, but not all of it. Problem is Obama has put that spending on steroids. I didn't support the deficit spending then and don't support it now, and as I have posted many times, there is plenty of duplication in the budget at the state and federal levels that could be cut out of the federal Budget. Too many people expect the FederalGovt. to do what is a state and local responsibility i.e. healthcare, HS&E, education. The true cost of the Federal Govt. should be around 1.8 trillion dollars and that means taking SS and Medicare off budget.
 
quote conservative

We have a consumer driven economy that requires consumer spending which affects demand.

Thus the need for a bigger government stimulus,seeing as the gov was only entity at that time that had excess to the amount of dough needed.



Because of consumer spending demand goes up, corporate profits go up and thus you have more people paying taxes along with higher corporate profit taxes.


Its always nice when somebody recycles, but this trickle down is getting a bit old.
 
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Thus the need for a bigger government stimulus,seeing as the gov was only entity at that time that had excess to the amount of dough needed.


Its always nice when somebody recycles, but this trickle down is getting a bit old.

A bigger stimulus only works in a socialist economy, not a private sector economy. If Obama had put that 800+ billion stimulus into the private sector in the form of incentives the economy would have exploded.
 
You would never make it in the retail business. You think that businesses make money on sale items? No, they use sales items to get people into the store so they buy something else. Similar principle with tax cuts, creating more taxpayers and that is exactly what happened with both Bush and Reagan. Would you prefer 1 taxpayer paying $1 or 2 taxpayers paying .50 each? think about it.

What the hell does your perception of how i cannot handle the retail business (how or why you went there is beyond me) have to do with the discussion?

Your entire premise ignores human behaviror and the components of economic growth.

Not at all. Besides, how would you know what my premise is? You have yet to address it in a single reply to my post.

We have a consumer driven economy that requires consumer spending which affects demand. Because of consumer spending demand goes up, corporate profits go up and thus you have more people paying taxes along with higher corporate profit taxes.

Nobody is doubting we have a consumer economy. However, you have yet to show where fiscal stimulus in the form of tax cuts has led to increased consumption. All relevant economic literature shows the majority of the Bush Tax cuts were saved rather than spent. A great portion of what was spent by way of tax cuts was on non-productive endeavors such as residential real estate and foreign produced goods.

By the way who forces the govt. to spend more money? Do you honestly believe we need a 3.6 trillion dollar govt which was the 2009 budget?

Following a near collapse of the global financial system in which consumers were left in a complete deleveraging mode? $3.6 trillion was obviously not enough. Without government spending (and deficits), GDP would have been much lower. Do you understand how/why?
 
A bigger stimulus only works in a socialist economy, not a private sector economy. If Obama had put that 800+ billion stimulus into the private sector in the form of incentives the economy would have exploded.

So the US in 1940 was a Socialist economy despite having less regulation and less government?

Care to explain why China's stimulus has produced massive growth despite the PRC being more capitalistic then the US?

Care to explain why decades of stimulus in South Korea turned it from a GDP less then the North to the 11th largest economy in the world?

You really outta flowchart your arguments. You're so tangled up in your contradictions that nothing sensible ever comes out of your posts.
 
What the hell does your perception of how i cannot handle the retail business (how or why you went there is beyond me) have to do with the discussion?



Not at all. Besides, how would you know what my premise is? You have yet to address it in a single reply to my post.



Nobody is doubting we have a consumer economy. However, you have yet to show where fiscal stimulus in the form of tax cuts has led to increased consumption. All relevant economic literature shows the majority of the Bush Tax cuts were saved rather than spent. A great portion of what was spent by way of tax cuts was on non-productive endeavors such as residential real estate and foreign produced goods.



Following a near collapse of the global financial system in which consumers were left in a complete deleveraging mode? $3.6 trillion was obviously not enough. Without government spending (and deficits), GDP would have been much lower. Do you understand how/why?

Apparently you missed the economic growth numbers and it is obvious that you haven't a clue as to the four components of GDP. Here is the link, do some research on job creation as well as economic growth. You can also get Treasury data showing the spending by line item.

BLS link, create own chart
Employment, Hours, and Earnings from the Current Employment Statistics survey (National)

BEA links GDP and Receipts/Expense
U.S. Department of Commerce. Bureau of Economic Analysis

U.S. Treasury
Current Report: Combined Statement of Receipts, Outlays, and Balances of the United States Government (Combined Statement): Publications & Guidance: Financial Management Service


Now I am still waiting for you to tell me which you would rather have, 1 taxpayer paying $1 or two taxpayers each paying .50 The goal of tax cuts was to stimulate the economy and create more jobs thus more taxpayers. That is exactly what happened.

In a private sector economy, people keeping more of what they earn need less of that so called govt. help thus a smaller central govt.
 
No question about it, Republicans spent too much during the Bush years, some of it understanable, 9/11, Katrina, Ike, Floyd, two wars, but not all of it.

Deficit spending during a recession or national emergency is understandable, but cutting taxes during economic expansion while increasing spending is a full of **** conservative policy, it is a bastardization of Keynesianism.

Problem is Obama has put that spending on steroids. I didn't support the deficit spending then and don't support it now, and as I have posted many times, there is plenty of duplication in the budget at the state and federal levels that could be cut out of the federal Budget. Too many people expect the FederalGovt. to do what is a state and local responsibility i.e. healthcare, HS&E, education. The true cost of the Federal Govt. should be around 1.8 trillion dollars and that means taking SS and Medicare off budget.

So deficits are justifiable during Republican administrations, but are sheer waste during Democrat administrations? Remember, between QII 2008 and QII 2009, trillion in an excess of $11 trillion in American wealth had vanished into thin air. Putting this into a historical perspective, that was more (factoring for inflation) of a wealth loss than even the Great Depression. The only difference is that we have social safety nets that keep aggregate demand in a manageable bound.
 
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