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Thread: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

  1. #151
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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    So the US in 1940 was a Socialist economy despite having less regulation and less government?

    Care to explain why China's stimulus has produced massive growth despite the PRC being more capitalistic then the US?

    Care to explain why decades of stimulus in South Korea turned it from a GDP less then the North to the 11th largest economy in the world?

    You really outta flowchart your arguments. You're so tangled up in your contradictions that nothing sensible ever comes out of your posts.
    You are indeed a legend in your own mind, which country has the largest economy in the world?

    You want our economy to be like China's? Willing to work for their pay and govt. control as well?

    The same with South Korea, want their pay rate per employee as well.

    1940? what was happening in the world in 1940. Maybe we should prepare for another World War too.

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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    Conservative still pushing the raw aggregate data argument?

    How sad. There's a thing people go to school for. It's called linear regression. It uses raw aggregate data to show that specific policies are actually the cause of a hypothesized effect.

    Nah, let's just throw unprocessed, unmodeled aggregate data and say it proves a broad, vague claim.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  3. #153
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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    Goldenboy219;1059123818]Deficit spending during a recession or national emergency is understandable, but deficit spending during economic expansion while increasing spending is a full of **** conservative policy, it is a bastardization of Keynesianism.

    Your premise is false. If obama had cut taxes in the private sector theamount of his stimulus the economy woudl have exploded and we would need less book smart people to tell us all how we need more govt. spending.

    So deficits are justifiable during Republican administrations, but are sheer waste during Democrat administrations? Remember, between QII 2008 and QII 2009, trillion in an excess of $11 trillion in American wealth had vanished into thin air. Putting this into a historical perspective, that was more (factoring for inflation) of a wealth loss than even the Great Depression. The only difference is that we have social safety nets that keep aggregate demand in a manageable bound.
    Deficits are only justified during Wars but I remind you who controlled the Congress in 2007-present and during that period of time the govt. ran 5 trillion in deficits. Democrats could have stopped that spending any time they wanted but didn't,they just stepped on the gas. No President can spend a dime without Congressional authorization. By the way, where did the TARP repayment dollars go? Anyone that supports this kind of spending isn't a libertarian, you are a liberal.

  4. #154
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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You are indeed a legend in your own mind, which country has the largest economy in the world?
    And that is relevant how? Oh I got it. You cannot answer my questions. And you fully realize your grasp of history is about as deep as a kiddie pool. Hence why you are now resorting to changing the subject to hide your ignorance of the topic as you know if you went toe to toe with me on those questions, you'd get proverbial slammed into the pavement.

    You want our economy to be like China's? Willing to work for their pay and govt. control as well?
    Work for our pay? Imagine that. Actually working. And you think that's bad. My point on PRC was that they have fewer regulations and far more of a capitalist functioning economy then the US. And their stimulus prevented a negative decline in their GDP, showing you, as usual, are wrong. And you CANNOT EVER respond to that question.

    The same with South Korea, want their pay rate per employee as well.
    Way to completely ignore the point there. But I can't be surprised. Considering your sheer lack of any understanding of either, you have to resort to changing the subject. You cannot deal with my actual point.

    1940? what was happening in the world in 1940. Maybe we should prepare for another World War too.
    Typical. 100% completely incapable of addressing questions.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  5. #155
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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    And that is relevant how? Oh I got it. You cannot answer my questions. And you fully realize your grasp of history is about as deep as a kiddie pool. Hence why you are now resorting to changing the subject to hide your ignorance of the topic as you know if you went toe to toe with me on those questions, you'd get proverbial slammed into the pavement.



    Work for our pay? Imagine that. Actually working. And you think that's bad. My point on PRC was that they have fewer regulations and far more of a capitalist functioning economy then the US. And their stimulus prevented a negative decline in their GDP, showing you, as usual, are wrong. And you CANNOT EVER respond to that question.



    Way to completely ignore the point there. But I can't be surprised. Considering your sheer lack of any understanding of either, you have to resort to changing the subject. You cannot deal with my actual point.



    Typical. 100% completely incapable of addressing questions.
    The American people answered your questions on November 2, 63+ House seats, 6 Senate Seats, 682 State legislature positions all converted to Republicans, a historic election and rebuke of Obama policies.

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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Apparently you missed the economic growth numbers and it is obvious that you haven't a clue as to the four components of GDP. Here is the link, do some research on job creation as well as economic growth. You can also get Treasury data showing the spending by line item.
    Funny.

    Y=C+I+G+(X-M)

    If GDP = 14 trillion, consumption = 9.8 trillion, investment = 2 trillion and government = 2.5 trillion, where did the extra 500 billion come from?

    Similarly, if consumption falls to 9 trillion and investment falls to 1.8 trillion, what does government spending have to be at to keep GDP from declining? Secondly, where does government get the money?

    Now I am still waiting for you to tell me which you would rather have, 1 taxpayer paying $1 or two taxpayers each paying .50 The goal of tax cuts was to stimulate the economy and create more jobs thus more taxpayers. That is exactly what happened.
    Who would argue against job growth? The tax cuts you routinely reference did not necessarily cause the amount of tax payers to double, nor did it necessarily create job growth. We do know that it caused government deficits, otherwise they would not have existed following the tax cuts. Why? Because government spending was increased!

    In a private sector economy, people keeping more of what they earn need less of that so called govt. help thus a smaller central govt.
    What happens if people do not purchase domestic goods with the proceeds from tax cuts?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    The American people answered your questions on November 2, 63+ House seats, 6 Senate Seats, 682 State legislature positions all converted to Republicans, a historic election and rebuke of Obama policies.
    Thanks for proving my point.

    You cannot address my points, instead constantly changing the subject to avoid discussing things you know you have absolutely no hope of matching me on.

    Your argument that stimulus can't work was just refuted by your cowardly refusal to address my questions.

    You 100% completely incapable of addressing questions.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Funny.

    Y=C+I+G+(X-M)

    If GDP = 14 trillion, consumption = 9.8 trillion, investment = 2 trillion and government = 2.5 trillion, where did the extra 500 billion come from?

    Similarly, if consumption falls to 9 trillion and investment falls to 1.8 trillion, what does government spending have to be at to keep GDP from declining? Secondly, where does government get the money?



    Who would argue against job growth? The tax cuts you routinely reference did not necessarily cause the amount of tax payers to double, nor did it necessarily create job growth. We do know that it caused government deficits, otherwise they would not have existed following the tax cuts. Why? Because government spending was increased!



    What happens if people do not purchase domestic goods with the proceeds from tax cuts?
    GDP is broken down by catergory at BEA.gov.

    The number of taxpayers didn't have to double to increase govt. revenue because of the trickle down effect, not only were there higher personal tax revenue but there was also higher exise and corporate income taxes. More consumers spending money created higher personal income taxes on people who had money invested in the markets as well as higher corporate profit taxes and more people driving and purchasing driving up excise taxes. Tax cuts boost economic activity and that boosts govt. revenue, your is one of pure arithmetic which creates limited economic growth and thus doesn't create more taxpayers. How do you explain the 8.5 million jobs created between 2001 and May 2008? think that economic growth didn't help create those jobs?

    What people do with their own money is none of your concern, if they invest it, save it, spend it or pay down debt it helps the economy. Savings creates dividend income which is taxable as is investment income, spending creates demand and corporate profits, and paying down debt helps the individual need less govt. help.

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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Your premise is false. If obama had cut taxes in the private sector theamount of his stimulus the economy woudl have exploded and we would need less book smart people to tell us all how we need more govt. spending.
    This is quite the heroic assumption. It requires the belief that proceeds in tax cuts are spent. Do you have any data that can show how much of Bush/Reagan tax cuts were spent? Secondly, it ignores human behavior; people who are in debt will pay down debt/increase savings with tax cut proceeds during periods of economic hardship.

    Deficits are only justified during Wars but I remind you who controlled the Congress in 2007-present and during that period of time the govt. ran 5 trillion in deficits. Democrats could have stopped that spending any time they wanted but didn't,they just stepped on the gas. No President can spend a dime without Congressional authorization. By the way, where did the TARP repayment dollars go? Anyone that supports this kind of spending isn't a libertarian, you are a liberal.
    Again, you cannot control yourself. Deflection is a sign of weakness.

    FWIW, the government received over $100 billion in TARP repayments this year, which will count against the deficit.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    FWIW, the government received over $100 billion in TARP repayments this year, which will count against the deficit.
    If it wasn't for AIG, we'd be on the track to showing significent profits from TARP. Not quite the return on the original Chrysler bailout in terms per dollar, but pretty sizable.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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