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Thread: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

  1. #141
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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    The government's problem is they are addicted to spending and have far too many believing that it is the government's role to provide for personal responsibility issues. I don't hear liberals ever talking about cutting spending. Makes me wonder why so many have such passion for taking more money from individuals and never holding govt. accountable for spending?

    Think about it.
    I have only heard conservatives talk about cutting government spending, and the only time we hear this is when there is an election coming, and they do not hold political power. But when they were in power, all they have done is act fiscally irresponsible.

    Think about it.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Tax cuts have everything to do with government spending. Only a phony conservative would believe that cutting taxes and holding constant/increasing government spending is not only fiscally conservative, but fiscally responsible. Consider the very simple example:

    Government revenue (year 1): 1000
    Government spending (year 1): 1000
    Fiscal Deficit: 0

    Now suppose for year 2 that taxes are cut in the tune of 20%.

    A fiscally responsible policy would also cut government spending by at least 20%; which would look like:

    Government revenue (year 2): 800
    Government spending (year 2): 800
    Government deficit: 0

    However, this is how the fake conservatives have behaved.

    Government revenue (year 2): 800
    Government spending (year 2): 1200
    Government deficit (year 2): 400.



    I understand personal responsibility quite well. You do not seem to understand what happens when taxes are cut and government spending increases. Fake conservatives talk out of their ass; demonizing deficit spending during a recession while engaging in deficit spending during economic expansion. Not the type of policy to hang your hat on.



    Why is it you cannot have a discussion with someone who does not agree with you without getting personal and making derogatory comments?
    You would never make it in the retail business. You think that businesses make money on sale items? No, they use sales items to get people into the store so they buy something else. Similar principle with tax cuts, creating more taxpayers and that is exactly what happened with both Bush and Reagan. Would you prefer 1 taxpayer paying $1 or 2 taxpayers paying .50 each? think about it. Your entire premise ignores human behaviror and the components of economic growth. We have a consumer driven economy that requires consumer spending which affects demand. Because of consumer spending demand goes up, corporate profits go up and thus you have more people paying taxes along with higher corporate profit taxes.

    By the way who forces the govt. to spend more money? Do you honestly believe we need a 3.6 trillion dollar govt which was the 2009 budget?
    Last edited by Conservative; 11-26-10 at 09:07 PM.

  3. #143
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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Fake conservatives talk out of their ass; demonizing deficit spending during a recession while engaging in deficit spending during economic expansion. Not the type of policy to hang your hat on.
    Nitpick. Fake conservatives demonize Democrat deficit spending during a recession. Republican deficit spending is acceptable to them all of the time regardless of the economy.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    I have only heard conservatives talk about cutting government spending, and the only time we hear this is when there is an election coming, and they do not hold political power. But when they were in power, all they have done is act fiscally irresponsible.

    Think about it.
    No question about it, Republicans spent too much during the Bush years, some of it understanable, 9/11, Katrina, Ike, Floyd, two wars, but not all of it. Problem is Obama has put that spending on steroids. I didn't support the deficit spending then and don't support it now, and as I have posted many times, there is plenty of duplication in the budget at the state and federal levels that could be cut out of the federal Budget. Too many people expect the FederalGovt. to do what is a state and local responsibility i.e. healthcare, HS&E, education. The true cost of the Federal Govt. should be around 1.8 trillion dollars and that means taking SS and Medicare off budget.

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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    quote conservative

    We have a consumer driven economy that requires consumer spending which affects demand.
    Thus the need for a bigger government stimulus,seeing as the gov was only entity at that time that had excess to the amount of dough needed.



    Because of consumer spending demand goes up, corporate profits go up and thus you have more people paying taxes along with higher corporate profit taxes.

    Its always nice when somebody recycles, but this trickle down is getting a bit old.
    Last edited by Donc; 11-26-10 at 09:18 PM. Reason: screwed up the post :(
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    Quote Originally Posted by donc View Post
    Thus the need for a bigger government stimulus,seeing as the gov was only entity at that time that had excess to the amount of dough needed.


    Its always nice when somebody recycles, but this trickle down is getting a bit old.
    A bigger stimulus only works in a socialist economy, not a private sector economy. If Obama had put that 800+ billion stimulus into the private sector in the form of incentives the economy would have exploded.

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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You would never make it in the retail business. You think that businesses make money on sale items? No, they use sales items to get people into the store so they buy something else. Similar principle with tax cuts, creating more taxpayers and that is exactly what happened with both Bush and Reagan. Would you prefer 1 taxpayer paying $1 or 2 taxpayers paying .50 each? think about it.
    What the hell does your perception of how i cannot handle the retail business (how or why you went there is beyond me) have to do with the discussion?

    Your entire premise ignores human behaviror and the components of economic growth.
    Not at all. Besides, how would you know what my premise is? You have yet to address it in a single reply to my post.

    We have a consumer driven economy that requires consumer spending which affects demand. Because of consumer spending demand goes up, corporate profits go up and thus you have more people paying taxes along with higher corporate profit taxes.
    Nobody is doubting we have a consumer economy. However, you have yet to show where fiscal stimulus in the form of tax cuts has led to increased consumption. All relevant economic literature shows the majority of the Bush Tax cuts were saved rather than spent. A great portion of what was spent by way of tax cuts was on non-productive endeavors such as residential real estate and foreign produced goods.

    By the way who forces the govt. to spend more money? Do you honestly believe we need a 3.6 trillion dollar govt which was the 2009 budget?
    Following a near collapse of the global financial system in which consumers were left in a complete deleveraging mode? $3.6 trillion was obviously not enough. Without government spending (and deficits), GDP would have been much lower. Do you understand how/why?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    A bigger stimulus only works in a socialist economy, not a private sector economy. If Obama had put that 800+ billion stimulus into the private sector in the form of incentives the economy would have exploded.
    So the US in 1940 was a Socialist economy despite having less regulation and less government?

    Care to explain why China's stimulus has produced massive growth despite the PRC being more capitalistic then the US?

    Care to explain why decades of stimulus in South Korea turned it from a GDP less then the North to the 11th largest economy in the world?

    You really outta flowchart your arguments. You're so tangled up in your contradictions that nothing sensible ever comes out of your posts.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    What the hell does your perception of how i cannot handle the retail business (how or why you went there is beyond me) have to do with the discussion?



    Not at all. Besides, how would you know what my premise is? You have yet to address it in a single reply to my post.



    Nobody is doubting we have a consumer economy. However, you have yet to show where fiscal stimulus in the form of tax cuts has led to increased consumption. All relevant economic literature shows the majority of the Bush Tax cuts were saved rather than spent. A great portion of what was spent by way of tax cuts was on non-productive endeavors such as residential real estate and foreign produced goods.



    Following a near collapse of the global financial system in which consumers were left in a complete deleveraging mode? $3.6 trillion was obviously not enough. Without government spending (and deficits), GDP would have been much lower. Do you understand how/why?
    Apparently you missed the economic growth numbers and it is obvious that you haven't a clue as to the four components of GDP. Here is the link, do some research on job creation as well as economic growth. You can also get Treasury data showing the spending by line item.

    BLS link, create own chart
    Employment, Hours, and Earnings from the Current Employment Statistics survey (National)

    BEA links GDP and Receipts/Expense
    U.S. Department of Commerce. Bureau of Economic Analysis

    U.S. Treasury
    Current Report: Combined Statement of Receipts, Outlays, and Balances of the United States Government (Combined Statement): Publications & Guidance: Financial Management Service


    Now I am still waiting for you to tell me which you would rather have, 1 taxpayer paying $1 or two taxpayers each paying .50 The goal of tax cuts was to stimulate the economy and create more jobs thus more taxpayers. That is exactly what happened.

    In a private sector economy, people keeping more of what they earn need less of that so called govt. help thus a smaller central govt.

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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    No question about it, Republicans spent too much during the Bush years, some of it understanable, 9/11, Katrina, Ike, Floyd, two wars, but not all of it.
    Deficit spending during a recession or national emergency is understandable, but cutting taxes during economic expansion while increasing spending is a full of **** conservative policy, it is a bastardization of Keynesianism.

    Problem is Obama has put that spending on steroids. I didn't support the deficit spending then and don't support it now, and as I have posted many times, there is plenty of duplication in the budget at the state and federal levels that could be cut out of the federal Budget. Too many people expect the FederalGovt. to do what is a state and local responsibility i.e. healthcare, HS&E, education. The true cost of the Federal Govt. should be around 1.8 trillion dollars and that means taking SS and Medicare off budget.
    So deficits are justifiable during Republican administrations, but are sheer waste during Democrat administrations? Remember, between QII 2008 and QII 2009, trillion in an excess of $11 trillion in American wealth had vanished into thin air. Putting this into a historical perspective, that was more (factoring for inflation) of a wealth loss than even the Great Depression. The only difference is that we have social safety nets that keep aggregate demand in a manageable bound.
    Last edited by Kushinator; 11-26-10 at 09:37 PM.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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