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Thread: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

  1. #131
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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Whether or not you believe a word I say is irrelevant to me because all I see here is someone who spent most of their time with their nose in a book and is out of touch with reality and the real world. Doubt that you have added anything of value to the economy.
    Your perception of me is irrelevant to this discussion. You have consistently disagreed on the basis of opinion, providing limited (at best) statistical analysis.

    You provide a lot of generalities and never any specifics. What exactly has Fox News promoted that is inaccurate or perverted? I await for something of value from you.
    In the red, you engage in the same manner of which i am being accused of. Political pundits on Fox News have repeatedly stated that increased payroll taxes increase the cost of labor. You claim to have ran a large business; if a person is making $40/hr and their tax bracket jumps by 3%, is the company paying anything more than $40/hr as a result of the payroll tax increase?

    I have posted actual data from non partisan sites and you counter with some textbook answer that doesnít relate to reality.
    You have provided claims in regards to raw data, and your analysis in no way supports those claims. Time to step up!

    Translation: I have spent my life buried in a textbook. What you ignore is that tax cuts allow people to keep more of their money and is not related to the govt. spending more money. Individuals have no control over what politicians spend and individuals donít have the ability to cut govt. spending. Individuals do have the opportunity to spend more of their own money when the govt. allows them to keep more.
    Typical response. Attack me on a personal level and then repeat the same old rhetoric. I never doubted that individuals have the opportunnity to spend more given tax cuts, only that increased private spending does not always result from tax cuts, e.g. the Bush Tax Cuts.

    What I showed is that GDP growth occurs when people spend more of what they earn
    You have yet to provide the forum with anything that supports the notion that tax cuts result in people spending more of what they earn. On the contrary, there is an amazing amount of literature showing that people save more when tax cuts are funded via deficits (cutting taxes while increasing spending).

    and that when people get to keep more take home pay human behavior kicks in and that is shown in consumer spending, the largest by far component of GDP.
    Do your best to provide data and analysis that contends that increases in consumer spending are the result of tax cuts. As a rule consumption increases, as real wages increase. Tax cuts funded by deficit spending do not increase real wages.

    That promotes higher corporate profits thus higher taxes and also promotes higher demand thus more jobs.
    Only if you assume the nominal value of the tax cuts are spent in the real economy.

    Something interesting to note; what happens when tax cuts are spent in the real economy, but the trajectory flows into an asset bubble such as real estate?

    Nothing I posted was contradicted by my post. Govt. doesnít have to make a profit, never has and never will.
    Agreed.

    It just prints more money.
    Incorrect, money is created in banks.

    There is no comparison between the U.S. Post Office and FedEx or UPS.
    They operate in the same market, yet despite the fact that the post office does not have to show a profit, UPS ad FedEx do rather well.

    The U.S. Post Office was created by the Federal Govt. and is funded by the Federal Govt. They answer to know one and constantly run in the red.
    Agreed, but how does this support your statement?

    No business is ever going to compete against a Federal entity as that would be like a duck competing with an alligator.
    Incorrect. UPS and FedEx compete with the U.S. Post Office on a daily basis.

    That is the goal of liberals and they are doing that incrementally by putting in place a healthcare program destined to fail.
    This belongs in the conspiracy theory subforum. The goal of liberals is to harm people

    When 30-40 million more people are unable to get quality service and that puts added pressure on an already burdened private system, these people will be crying of a govt. solution and thus here comes the single payer system.
    A single payer system requires government to assume any and all health care costs for all citizens regardless of income. I am not arguing for such a system, so lay off of the red herring.

    No, get out in the real world a little bit more and see what is really going on.
    You are in no position to make a determination of what i do when i am not posting on this message board. Can you make it a point to refrain from bringing up your perception of me, and instead focus on the actual discussion? After all, it is the mature thing to do.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  2. #132
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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Your perception of me is irrelevant to this discussion. You have consistently disagreed on the basis of opinion, providing limited (at best) statistical analysis.



    In the red, you engage in the same manner of which i am being accused of. Political pundits on Fox News have repeatedly stated that increased payroll taxes increase the cost of labor. You claim to have ran a large business; if a person is making $40/hr and their tax bracket jumps by 3%, is the company paying anything more than $40/hr as a result of the payroll tax increase?



    You have provided claims in regards to raw data, and your analysis in no way supports those claims. Time to step up!



    Typical response. Attack me on a personal level and then repeat the same old rhetoric. I never doubted that individuals have the opportunnity to spend more given tax cuts, only that increased private spending does not always result from tax cuts, e.g. the Bush Tax Cuts.



    You have yet to provide the forum with anything that supports the notion that tax cuts result in people spending more of what they earn. On the contrary, there is an amazing amount of literature showing that people save more when tax cuts are funded via deficits (cutting taxes while increasing spending).



    Do your best to provide data and analysis that contends that increases in consumer spending are the result of tax cuts. As a rule consumption increases, as real wages increase. Tax cuts funded by deficit spending do not increase real wages.



    Only if you assume the nominal value of the tax cuts are spent in the real economy.

    Something interesting to note; what happens when tax cuts are spent in the real economy, but the trajectory flows into an asset bubble such as real estate?



    Agreed.



    Incorrect, money is created in banks.



    They operate in the same market, yet despite the fact that the post office does not have to show a profit, UPS ad FedEx do rather well.



    Agreed, but how does this support your statement?



    Incorrect. UPS and FedEx compete with the U.S. Post Office on a daily basis.



    This belongs in the conspiracy theory subforum. The goal of liberals is to harm people



    A single payer system requires government to assume any and all health care costs for all citizens regardless of income. I am not arguing for such a system, so lay off of the red herring.



    You are in no position to make a determination of what i do when i am not posting on this message board. Can you make it a point to refrain from bringing up your perception of me, and instead focus on the actual discussion? After all, it is the mature thing to do.
    This discussion is going nowhere, tax cuts funded by deficit spending? I reject that flawed statement thus the rest of your post. Allowing people to keep more of what they earn isn't an expense to the govt, isn't a line item in the budget, and is nothing more than class envy from someone who believes the govt. needs the money more than the individual.

    The mature thing to do is admit that you never ran a business, don't have a clue how the private sector works, and that you are really aren't a libertarian.

  3. #133
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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    This discussion is going nowhere, tax cuts funded by deficit spending? I reject that flawed statement thus the rest of your post. Allowing people to keep more of what they earn isn't an expense to the govt, isn't a line item in the budget, and is nothing more than class envy from someone who believes the govt. needs the money more than the individual.
    Of course not, you cannot slither your way out of making narrow-minded statements. When tax cuts are not accompanied by spending cuts, the government is forced to borrow. Not sure why you are having trouble understanding the concept.

    The mature thing to do is admit that you never ran a business, don't have a clue how the private sector works, and that you are really aren't a libertarian.
    I see you cannot help yourself from discussing me (you must be obsessed). It signifies the weakness of your position.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  4. #134
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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Of course not, you cannot slither your way out of making narrow-minded statements. When tax cuts are not accompanied by spending cuts, the government is forced to borrow. Not sure why you are having trouble understanding the concept.



    I see you cannot help yourself from discussing me (you must be obsessed). It signifies the weakness of your position.
    Total and complete bull****, tax cuts allow people to keep more of what they earn and has nothing to do with spending and in fact people keeping more of their own money needs less of that so called govt. help. You don't seem to understand the concept of personal responsibility at all which makes you a liberal not a libertarian.

    I point out the obvious since I obviously am not as smart as someone who never ran a business, spent most of your life with your nose stuck in a book, and don't know how the private sector works. It is book smart street stupid individuals that have made a mess of this economy. I wish I could tell you what to do with your book smarts.
    Last edited by Conservative; 11-26-10 at 08:06 PM.

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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    It has been stated here that tax cuts are an expense to the Federal Govt. and has to be paid for. Obviously I reject that statement as I understand how the private sector economy works and people keeping more of their own money need less of that so called govt. help. Still I cannot get through to those who believe the govt. needs the money more than the individual taxpayer so let's take this right to the liberals. Let's say that you are right and that tax cuts bring in less money to the treasury even though the numbers don't support that but if it does, what do you do when you get less income? Most people would say they lower spending but not the govt. They just print or borrow more money never cutting spending. Make sense to anyone here?

    Today the official unemployment number shows 16 million unemployed Americans so this Administration has done its part to cut govt. revenue. The government's problem is they are addicted to spending and have far too many believing that it is the government's role to provide for personal responsibility issues. I don't hear liberals ever talking about cutting spending. Makes me wonder why so many have such passion for taking more money from individuals and never holding govt. accountable for spending?

    Think about it.

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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    I'm always amused when people excuse Obama by pointing out that he inherited a bad economy, but then conveniently forget that our economy hit one or two minor bumps in the early years of Bush's presidency.

    At least make an attempt to be consistent.
    The difference is Bush-43 NEVER had a rapid 3-4 point dip in unemployment to contend with. Unemployment figures fluxuated between 4.0 and 6%. Not a fair nor accurate comparison at all, not even during the one or two brief recessions this country experienced during GW Bush's tenure. Try again.

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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    The difference is Bush-43 NEVER had a rapid 3-4 point dip in unemployment to contend with. Unemployment figures fluxuated between 4.0 and 6%. Not a fair nor accurate comparison at all, not even during the one or two brief recessions this country experienced during GW Bush's tenure. Try again.
    Yet you seem willing to buy the rhetoric from the Obama Administration. Obama took over an economy that came out of recession in June 2009. He forced the passage of a 800+ billion stimulus plan in February 2009 and yet today and every month of 2010 the unemployment numbers are higher than they were in 2009 or even 2008 at the heighth of the recession. How do you explain that?

    BLS link, create own chart
    Employment, Hours, and Earnings from the Current Employment Statistics survey (National)

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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    What rhetoric? I'm just stating fact.

    GW Bush never had to contend with a rapid drop in unemployment. By comparison, he had it pretty good.

    As for unemployment numbers under Pres. Obama in relation to stimulus spending, granted the numbers haven't improved much, but progress is being made...slowly, but there is very clear evidence that the economy is recovering.

    As for the BLS charts, no thanks. You post enough of them for all of us as it is.

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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    What rhetoric? I'm just stating fact.

    GW Bush never had to contend with a rapid drop in unemployment. By comparison, he had it pretty good.

    As for unemployment numbers under Pres. Obama in relation to stimulus spending, granted the numbers haven't improved much, but progress is being made...slowly, but there is very clear evidence that the economy is recovering.

    As for the BLS charts, no thanks. You post enough of them for all of us as it is.
    So you make the claim that progress is being made but provide no evidence of that because you refuse to look at the official charts. Apparently you don't have a problem being wrong for if the unemployment is higher today than it was when the recession ended and after the stimulus bill was signed how could things be better and progress being made? You do realize that your comments put you in the cult following? Does it bother you that with all that spending we have these kind of results? How will we ever pay off that debt or do you not understand debt and its affect on the value of the dollar, inflation, and job creation?

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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Total and complete bull****, tax cuts allow people to keep more of what they earn and has nothing to do with spending and in fact people keeping more of their own money needs less of that so called govt. help.
    Tax cuts have everything to do with government spending. Only a phony conservative would believe that cutting taxes and holding constant/increasing government spending is not only fiscally conservative, but fiscally responsible. Consider the very simple example:

    Government revenue (year 1): 1000
    Government spending (year 1): 1000
    Fiscal Deficit: 0

    Now suppose for year 2 that taxes are cut in the tune of 20%.

    A fiscally responsible policy would also cut government spending by at least 20%; which would look like:

    Government revenue (year 2): 800
    Government spending (year 2): 800
    Government deficit: 0

    However, this is how the fake conservatives have behaved.

    Government revenue (year 2): 800
    Government spending (year 2): 1200
    Government deficit (year 2): 400.

    You don't seem to understand the concept of personal responsibility at all which makes you a liberal not a libertarian.
    I understand personal responsibility quite well. You do not seem to understand what happens when taxes are cut and government spending increases. Fake conservatives talk out of their ass; demonizing deficit spending during a recession while engaging in deficit spending during economic expansion. Not the type of policy to hang your hat on.

    I point out the obvious since I obviously am not as smart as someone who never ran a business, spent most of your life with your nose stuck in a book, and don't know how the private sector works. It is book smart street stupid individuals that have made a mess of this economy. I wish I could tell you what to do with your book smarts.
    Why is it you cannot have a discussion with someone who does not agree with you without getting personal and making derogatory comments?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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