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Thread: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Why don't you try reading the article from the Time you posted?

    Now it is your turn to answer a question

    what about the people in Texas already on medicare should Texas opt out of the medicare program and the 12 billion in matching funds?

    Or are going to go back into rhetoric mode?
    Wouldn't it be better worrying about why 111 entities and growing got a waiver from Obamacare instead of focusing on something else that hasn't happened yet and may not happen? All diversion which you do when backed into a corner and unable to defend your position.

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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    111 entities are opting out of the Obamacare program that was sold on being the best thing for the American people. Check out the list of those opting out, mostly unions and other Obama supporters.

    this should be headline news but is being buried. Guess you will defend this Administration regardless of how foolish it makes you look.

    So go start a newspaper

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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    First of all, neither of you have a clue as to what kind of jobs were created during the Bush years but continue to buy the liberal rhetoric. All you need to do is go to BLS.gov to find out but that would take too much effort.

    Then you tout the accomplishments of your Democrat Governor. Interesting that you give your Democrat Gov. credit for creating jobs but blame President Bush for not creating jobs so which is it? So apparently Bush lost jobs but your governor created them?
    Look what i found at my now fav site.



    2001=132469

    2009=133549


    http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyOutputServlet
    Last edited by Donc; 11-18-10 at 12:47 AM. Reason: to add more data
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

  4. #124
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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    Quote Originally Posted by donc View Post
    Look what i found at my now fav site.



    2001=132469

    2009=133549


    Notice: Data not available: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics
    Have no idea what that is, your link doesn't work. What chart did you just build? You ought to define what you posted. I posted actual employment during the period which for you means people employed.

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    rolleyes Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    As usual, I disagree with a couple things and agree with a couple, first that the Democrats are indeed not blameless for the fiscal and health care blunder as they controlled the entire legislative process including a time when they had a filibuster proof Senate. I also believe the stimulus was very poorly constructed and since it was poorly constructed we don't know if it was too small or not. Reagan got us out of a worse recession at much lower the cost.
    There is a major difference between a recession that resulted from curbing inflation, and a recession that rendered the global financial system insolvent without bailouts. China enacted a stimulus package that was nearly 10% of GDP, and they were not nearly as shaken as the US.

    As for the healthcare bill, are you trying to tell me that this country needs the public option? Where are you going to find doctors and hospitals to participate? The public option takes incentive out of the process and thus will destroy the economy like it has in Europe. Most countries there are trying to undo decades of socialism. There is no way that the public option makes this country stronger economically.
    Private insurance companies can easily compete with a public option because they have the ability to offer policies tailored to the individual, and from that they derive a great deal of value. As it stands, 62% of bankruptcies in the U.S. are health care related. Physical and mental health is a critical component to a productive workforce, and this extends beyond the job, e.g. employee dependents. The average cost of an independent health care plan for a family of 4 is around $16,000, and that excludes medical deductibles, out of pocket expenses, etc....

    Our health care system operates on the basis of unsustainable price increases.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    Goldenboy219;1059109253]There is a major difference between a recession that resulted from curbing inflation, and a recession that rendered the global financial system insolvent without bailouts. China enacted a stimulus package that was nearly 10% of GDP, and they were not nearly as shaken as the US.
    China's economy is not like the U.S. whereas ours is based upon free enterprise and capitalism, not state controlled, quasi socialist economy thus needing less govt. spending to get us out of a recession, Tax cuts and support for the private sector would have done that. Very little was spent from February to June 2009 and still we came out of recession. The Obama spending kicked in and did little good at all because of the targeted nature towards people who don't pay any taxes thus a transfer of tax payments from those that do pay taxes to those that don't. No net gain to the taxpayers.


    Private insurance companies can easily compete with a public option because they have the ability to offer policies tailored to the individual, and from that they derive a great deal of value. As it stands, 62% of bankruptcies in the U.S. are health care related. Physical and mental health is a critical component to a productive workforce, and this extends beyond the job, e.g. employee dependents. The average cost of an independent health care plan for a family of 4 is around $16,000, and that excludes medical deductibles, out of pocket expenses, etc....
    Private insurance cannot compete with the govt. as private insurance cannot print money nor can private insurance operate without a profit. Govt. can do both and the ultimate goal of the govt. is single payer thus govt. control.

    Our health care system operates on the basis of unsustainable price increases.

    Then tell me why 111 waivers were issued allowing entities to opt out of Obamacare. I don't think you understand the private sector at all and the low profit margins of the healthcare business

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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    China's economy is not like the U.S. whereas ours is based upon free enterprise and capitalism, not state controlled, quasi socialist economy thus needing less govt. spending to get us out of a recession, Tax cuts and support for the private sector would have done that.
    You show little understanding of capitalism, and its relationship to business cycle frequency. In a truly socialist country, consumer demand takes on static properties due to extensive social safety nets that minimize labor market volatility. Nations with extensive social safety nets do not require "hydrualic keynesianism" to minimize the effects of downward nominal wage rigitities. China's situation was different because they depend on exports, but the goal of their fiscal policy was to stimulate domestic demand.

    Cutting taxes during a period of consumer deleveraging is a poor idea. If the money is not spent, it manifests into an increased deficit without boosting demand.

    Very little was spent from February to June 2009 and still we came out of recession.
    The Federal Reserve tripled its balance sheet, and brought short term interest rates close to zero. Monetary stimulus was successful in minimizing output losses, but in and of itself is unable to spur labor market demand. Government spending during a time when private business spending has seemingly evaporated does create demand by creating jobs.

    The Obama spending kicked in and did little good at all because of the targeted nature towards people who don't pay any taxes thus a transfer of tax payments from those that do pay taxes to those that don't. No net gain to the taxpayers.
    The premise behind fiscal stimulus is to create demand, not provide a "net gain" for taxpayers.

    Private insurance cannot compete with the govt. as private insurance cannot print money nor can private insurance operate without a profit. Govt. can do both and the ultimate goal of the govt. is single payer thus govt. control.
    UPS and Fed Ex are very successful, even though the US Post Office is their direct competition. How do they exist?

    Then tell me why 111 waivers were issued allowing entities to opt out of Obamacare. I don't think you understand the private sector at all and the low profit margins of the healthcare business
    Again. It is weak health care reform.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    You show little understanding of capitalism, and its relationship to business cycle frequency. In a truly socialist country, consumer demand takes on static properties due to extensive social safety nets that minimize labor market volatility. Nations with extensive social safety nets do not require "hydrualic keynesianism" to minimize the effects of downward nominal wage rigitities. China's situation was different because they depend on exports, but the goal of their fiscal policy was to stimulate domestic demand.

    Cutting taxes during a period of consumer deleveraging is a poor idea. If the money is not spent, it manifests into an increased deficit without boosting demand.



    The Federal Reserve tripled its balance sheet, and brought short term interest rates close to zero. Monetary stimulus was successful in minimizing output losses, but in and of itself is unable to spur labor market demand. Government spending during a time when private business spending has seemingly evaporated does create demand by creating jobs.



    The premise behind fiscal stimulus is to create demand, not provide a "net gain" for taxpayers.



    UPS and Fed Ex are very successful, even though the US Post Office is their direct competition. How do they exist?



    Again. It is weak health care reform.


    You are absolutely correct, I have no idea how the private sector works and nothing about capitalism as I just wasted 35 years in the private sector and actually ran a 200 million dollar a year business. All my employees will be shocked to here that I faked it all those years. I will certainly bow to your superior expertise and superior intelligence as I find you to be a true legend in your own mind.

    It does seem to me that you have spent a lot of time on theory and with your nose stuck in a textbook. Too bad you didn't put your brains to better use. You don't have a clue how human behavior works and how that affects our economy. We are talking about two different things here, the fed pumping money into the system and Obama spending money on a stimulus plan that did nothing to stimulate the economy. Instead all it did was stimulate debt.

    If you want to know how UPS and FedEx work I suggest you get your nose out of the economics book and do some research. The P.O. is a perfect example of a complete failure of a govt. run entity. No business could lose billions and stay in business. UPS and FedEx offer unique services that the post office doesn't but could not survive for long the red ink that the P.O. generates every year.

    Sounds like you want a single payer system. Wonder if your ego will allow you to consider the possiblity that you could be wrong, then what?

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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You are absolutely correct, I have no idea how the private sector works and nothing about capitalism as I just wasted 35 years in the private sector and actually ran a 200 million dollar a year business.
    This is a straw-man combined with a red-herring and an anecdotal fallacy. Just because you make the claim on an internet forum about your personal business expertise does not equate to a relevant understanding of macroeconomics. What it shows is you claim to have a relevant understanding of your particular market segment, but not the mechanics behind markets in general.

    All my employees will be shocked to here that I faked it all those years. I will certainly bow to your superior expertise and superior intelligence as I find you to be a true legend in your own mind.
    Please cite any and all instances of invalidity regarding the particular subjects we have discussed. What i have found is that you take the inaccuracies portrayed on talk raido and Fox News as truth, when the information has been perverted to fit within an ideological framework.

    It does seem to me that you have spent a lot of time on theory and with your nose stuck in a textbook. Too bad you didn't put your brains to better use. You don't have a clue how human behavior works and how that affects our economy. We are talking about two different things here, the fed pumping money into the system and Obama spending money on a stimulus plan that did nothing to stimulate the economy. Instead all it did was stimulate debt.
    I have continually analyzed human behavior within the context of financial economic analysis. Simply stating that lower taxes create economic growth ignores the behavioral economic reality. For example, if a country lowers taxes and does not cut spending, the instantaneous short run result is increased deficit spending. To show that lower taxes create growth, you need to isolate a whole slew of other dependent variables such as government spending, saving rates, capital mobility, productivity, money multipliers, inflation, etc... to determine the economic effects of a tax cut.

    If you want to know how UPS and FedEx work I suggest you get your nose out of the economics book and do some research. The P.O. is a perfect example of a complete failure of a govt. run entity. No business could lose billions and stay in business. UPS and FedEx offer unique services that the post office doesn't but could not survive for long the red ink that the P.O. generates every year.
    This contradicts your previous assertion about a public option, and how private underwriting practices cannot compete with an entity that does not have to turn a profit. The bold sentence is incoherent. UPS and FedEx derive value by offering products and services that are more efficient or innovative in the same way that private insurance companies offer policies that are more tailored to individual needs and demands. Unless you believe that the government provides better quality than the private sector, private firms will have no problem competing with inefficient government agencies.

    Sounds like you want a single payer system. Wonder if your ego will allow you to consider the possiblity that you could be wrong, then what?
    There is no need for a single payer system, as our private sector is quite capable of deriving value for their products.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Obama Heralds 1.1M Private Sector Jobs Created Since Jan.

    Goldenboy219;1059121773]This is a straw-man combined with a red-herring and an anecdotal fallacy. Just because you make the claim on an internet forum about your personal business expertise does not equate to a relevant understanding of macroeconomics. What it shows is you claim to have a relevant understanding of your particular market segment, but not the mechanics behind markets in general.
    Whether or not you believe a word I say is irrelevant to me because all I see here is someone who spent most of their time with their nose in a book and is out of touch with reality and the real world. Doubt that you have added anything of value to the economy.

    Please cite any and all instances of invalidity regarding the particular subjects we have discussed. What i have found is that you take the inaccuracies portrayed on talk raido and Fox News as truth, when the information has been perverted to fit within an ideological framework.
    You provide a lot of generalities and never any specifics. What exactly has Fox News promoted that is inaccurate or perverted? I await for something of value from you.

    I have posted actual data from non partisan sites and you counter with some textbook answer that doesn’t relate to reality.

    I have continually analyzed human behavior within the context of financial economic analysis. Simply stating that lower taxes create economic growth ignores the behavioral economic reality. For example, if a country lowers taxes and does not cut spending, the instantaneous short run result is increased deficit spending. To show that lower taxes create growth, you need to isolate a whole slew of other dependent variables such as government spending, saving rates, capital mobility, productivity, money multipliers, inflation, etc... to determine the economic effects of a tax cut.
    Translation: I have spent my life buried in a textbook. What you ignore is that tax cuts allow people to keep more of their money and is not related to the govt. spending more money. Individuals have no control over what politicians spend and individuals don’t have the ability to cut govt. spending. Individuals do have the opportunity to spend more of their own money when the govt. allows them to keep more.

    What I showed is that GDP growth occurs when people spend more of what they earn and that when people get to keep more take home pay human behavior kicks in and that is shown in consumer spending, the largest by far component of GDP. That promotes higher corporate profits thus higher taxes and also promotes higher demand thus more jobs.

    This contradicts your previous assertion about a public option, and how private underwriting practices cannot compete with an entity that does not have to turn a profit. The bold sentence is incoherent. UPS and FedEx derive value by offering products and services that are more efficient or innovative in the same way that private insurance companies offer policies that are more tailored to individual needs and demands. Unless you believe that the government provides better quality than the private sector, private firms will have no problem competing with inefficient government agencies.
    Nothing I posted was contradicted by my post. Govt. doesn’t have to make a profit, never has and never will. It just prints more money. There is no comparison between the U.S. Post Office and FedEx or UPS. The U.S. Post Office was created by the Federal Govt. and is funded by the Federal Govt. They answer to know one and constantly run in the red. No business is ever going to compete against a Federal entity as that would be like a duck competing with an alligator.

    There is no need for a single payer system, as our private sector is quite capable of deriving value for their products
    That is the goal of liberals and they are doing that incrementally by putting in place a healthcare program destined to fail. When 30-40 million more people are unable to get quality service and that puts added pressure on an already burdened private system, these people will be crying of a govt. solution and thus here comes the single payer system.

    No, get out in the real world a little bit more and see what is really going on.

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