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Sexual assault in airports

Catz Part Deux said:
I'm kind of put out. I've flown almost 60k miles this year and NO ONE has fondled me. Not even once.
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These are new regulations. Unless you've flown 60k miles in the past two weeks, what you've experienced is irrelevant w/r to the OP.
 
We'll be driving instead of flying until this stops. A close family member has had some sensitive cancer surgery and it's just too much for them to go through that screening. It's not worth it. And now that stories are coming out that they're frisking between the legs, too? Um, I don't think so. I don't want my kids growing up to think that is okay in a free country. We protest that. We don't think it keeps us safer since terrorists tend to think ahead and change tactics anyway.

We should do what Israel does and question people and quit terrorizing innocent travellers like this. Even if you yourself don't mind the procedures or haven't had a bad experience please have some compassion for those who do.

Airport Security Solution: Should the TSA Profile Travelers to Prevent Terrorist Attacks? - ABC News
Fta:
Isaac Yeffet, the former head of security for the Israeli airline El Al, says the only way to secure the skies is to employ highly-educated, well-trained agents to question passengers. Forget bomb-sniffing "puffers" or scanners that can see through passengers' clothes. Yeffet said that he has seen many terrorists outsmart airport security over the years, and as technology improves, so do the terrorists' methods.

"We are dealing with a sophisticated enemy who knows how to beat our technology," said Yeffet, who now runs his own firm, Yeffet Security Consultants....
When hiring people to do profiling, Yeffet said, they must be qualified staff, "very well educated people" with at least a college education and fluent in English and at least one other language.

"We test them always. Anybody who fails is fired. We have no mercy because we are dealing with lives," Yeffet said. "The problem with the TSA is that they don't have experts, they don't have qualified people."

The Transportation Security Administration did not respond to requests for comment.
More at the source.
 
Here's what happened to one guy who refused to have his crotch examined. Granted, he didn't help himself by telling the TSA agent "if you touch my junk I'll have you arrested."



IMO the agents acted in a professional manner. The problem is the policy they're tasked with enforcing. This guy eventually left and actually had his non-refundable ticket refunded by American Airlines (good for them). TSA told him as he was leaving though, that he may be sued in civil court for $10,000 for leaving the area.

Which brings up the question... whether you're for or against these enchanced pat downs, what good are they if when push comes to shove the passenger can simply refuse and leave??
 
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LOL - funny, but people should remember to be angry at the policy, not at the TSA agents who have no choice in following it. At least the policy isn't SO boneheaded that guys like that are selecting women "at random" for "enhanced pat downs". Every complaint I've read thus far has involved a same-sex agent.

Still... I wonder if they'd be getting a lot less resistance - at least from men - if the TSA agents looked more like this? :D It would bring a whole new meaning to "suspicious package" and I don't think their wives and girlfriends would be too happy.


Notice the guy pretending to "fix" his camera.
 
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Taylor said:
Still... I wonder if they'd be getting a lot less resistance - at least from men - if the TSA agents looked more like this?

Notice the guy pretending to "fix" his camera.
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Just use your imagination, I can't seem to link to pics of "women in uniform" without the image being later replaced by an ad.
 
Taylor said:
LOL - funny, but people should remember to be angry at the policy, not at the TSA agents who have no choice in following it.
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Agreed that bad policy is the core of the problem, but some of the agents can be real jerks too.
 
Dix said:
We should do what Israel does and question people and quit terrorizing innocent travellers like this. Even if you yourself don't mind the procedures or haven't had a bad experience please have some compassion for those who do.
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The Israelis at times also strip search at airports and border crossings, they don't just question. I know this through experience.
 
peas_and_corn said:
The Israelis at times also strip search at airports and border crossings, they don't just question. I know this through experience.
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Strip search? STRIP SEARCH? :shock:

Brb crossing out Israel from list of countries to visit

OT. I'm nothing but annoyed at this use of scanners. I'm especially annoyed at UK's policies which is basically take those scans. Meh, looks like I am in for no holidays outside of EU for a long time :S
 
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Taylor said:
Which brings up the question... whether you're for or against these enchanced pat downs, what good are they if when push comes to shove the passenger can simply refuse and leave??
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they don't get on the plane?
 
OscarB63 said:
they don't get on the plane?
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If they were a terrorist, it would hardly matter. A airport is still a pretty good place to blow yourself up.
 
Laila said:
If they were a terrorist, it would hardly matter. A airport is still a pretty good place to blow yourself up.
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Not if their handlers had specifically told them to blow up the plane. the typical terrorist/suicide bomber isn't much on original thinking, they are good at following orders. If the boss tells them to blow up a plane and the TSA turns them away, they will more likely than not simply leave and try again later or at a different airport.

and there is also the fact that a small explosive detonated in the airport might kill a few people close by and do a little damage but the same small explosive detonated on a plane will bring it down and kill everyone.
 
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OscarB63 said:
Not if their handlers had specifically told them to blow up the plane. the typical terrorist/suicide bomber isn't much on original thinking, they are good at following orders. If the boss tells them to blow up a plane and the TSA turns them away, they will more likely than not simply leave and try again later or at a different airport.

and there is also the fact that a small explosive detonated in the airport might kill a few people close by and do a little damage but the same small explosive detonated on a plane will bring it down and kill everyone.
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I also doubt that, terrorists. At least Western/home grown ones, are generally speaking highly educated.

Proximity. Airports are generally packed, it would kill dozens and harm even more. No different to a plane. A plane is unoriginal, no terrorist would be stupid enough to go down that route anymore.

They'd probably be after trains or buses (like 7/7). Areas where there isn't that much security but still big enough to cause damage/impact.
 
Saboteur said:
But it costs too much in taxes to hire quality security personnel
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Thats why we get the government out of the airport business. Its time to fully privatize them and let them be in charge of their own security.

Dr_Patrick said:
I would have an easier time believing this if it wasn't on the Alex Jones show. From what I've seen of that guy, he's kind of a freak.
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Jones is ok, his trade protectionist views annoy me but he is dead on when it comes to civil liberties.
 
On behalf of corporate pilots every where; thank you TSA for making my job more secure :)
 
Blackdog as Ksu said:
On behalf of corporate pilots every where; thank you TSA for making my job more secure :) And my penis more available for fondling. :mrgreen:
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Just kidding KSU, could not resist.
 
Here is a good summary on the possible negative health effects:
Millimeter wave scanner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here is a page that shows just how much the scanner reveals of your body:
TSA: How It Works

I can't find the policy on-line, but I know that the new policy is that the screeners must use the front of their hands AND MUST check sensative areas (i.e. groin, breasts and butt).
 
ksu_aviator said:
Are you kidding? They always think I have a weapon....nothing but a weapon could be that long, thick and hard...right? :D
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you didn't happen to be known as stan on another forum, did you?
 
I'm known by many names to many people (most derogatory) but I don't believe Stan is one of them.
 
peas_and_corn said:
The Israelis at times also strip search at airports and border crossings, they don't just question. I know this through experience.
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Isn't that just when they fail the screening? Something sends up a red flag. I'm not trying to down-play that. But no screening system will ever be perfect and it sounds like Israel has a good safety record and is treating most people with dignity.
TSA is rolling out more of those naked scanners and wants to put everyone through either that or the pat-down, even without any red flags. That is what I have a problem with. There is no reason to treat everyone like they're high risk. TSA is skipping some steps in the screening process and making us pay the price.

David Harris: What Israel Can Teach the World About Airport Security
For the average passenger, the whole process moves quickly and with a minimum of personal inconvenience.

Of course, for travelers who have multiple visas from Yemen or Pakistan in their passports, look fidgety or distracted, become unnerved after the second question, try to buy a one-way ticket at the last minute with cash, show up with no luggage for an intercontinental journey, are wearing a heavy coat in summer, or display "attitude," it's likely to be a rather different story.

And this is the key. Israel understands that you need a security system that carefully scrutinizes everyone, as you can never tell who might be involved.
 
Dix said:
Isn't that just when they fail the screening? Something sends up a red flag. I'm not trying to down-play that. But no screening system will ever be perfect and it sounds like Israel has a good safety record and is treating most people with dignity.
TSA is rolling out more of those naked scanners and wants to put everyone through either that or the pat-down, even without any red flags. That is what I have a problem with. There is no reason to treat everyone like they're high risk. TSA is skipping some steps in the screening process and making us pay the price.

David Harris: What Israel Can Teach the World About Airport Security
For the average passenger, the whole process moves quickly and with a minimum of personal inconvenience.

Of course, for travelers who have multiple visas from Yemen or Pakistan in their passports, look fidgety or distracted, become unnerved after the second question, try to buy a one-way ticket at the last minute with cash, show up with no luggage for an intercontinental journey, are wearing a heavy coat in summer, or display "attitude," it's likely to be a rather different story.

And this is the key. Israel understands that you need a security system that carefully scrutinizes everyone, as you can never tell who might be involved.
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Well, at the crossing from Egypt I was pulled aside because I was looking around the checkpoint too much (not walking around, just looking around the room in a suspicious way as I stood in line). At the airport it was because I didn't know what line to walk into.
 
Diogenes said:
I don't think I'm gonna fly any more. This is really outrageous.

TSA Fondles Women and Children Refusing Airport Naked Body Scanners
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Ok - for those of us who have been legitimately sexually assaulted calling a feeling-up done in an orderly mannor to check for possible weapons is not SEXUAL ASSAULT and it's offensive to suggest it is.
There is no unwanted for forceful exchange of sexual acts.
There is no personal pleasure derived by one part through exerting control or dominance other the other.
It is not sexual assault - it might be uncomfortable or annoying, but it's not assault.

how do you think the agents feel who *have* to do that all the time with *everyone* being pissed wtih them? Nothing appealing about having to feel us some nasty ass people - rather ew if you ask me.

The only time at which I felt it was WRONG was the little girl the other day - The only time a child should be touched unwantedly by another adult is when they're sick and at the Dr's office or hospital - only fi the parents are there.
Now this incident I'm not pointint to the TSA agent who was merely following order - I blame the Mom for putting the child in that sad situation.
 
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