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Thread: Voters ban judges from using international law

  1. #21
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    Re: Voters ban judges from using international law

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I do not know about those things in particular buts judges here in the US have cited foreign law

    Sharia in New Jersey: Muslim husband rapes wife, judge sees no sexual assault because Islam forbids wives to refuse sex - Jihad Watch
    The actual document is hard to find. the court that over turned the appeal said that:
    "In this action pursuant to the Prevention of Domestic Violence Act (PDVA), we held that the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment does not require a Family Part judge to exempt defendant, a practicing Muslim, from a finding that he committed the predicate acts of sexual assault and criminal sexual contact and thus violated the PDVA.
    We also found that the judge was mistaken in failing to enter a final restraining order in the matter."
    From this it seems that, in this case the issue was a poor interpretation of the 1st amendment rather than use of Sharia law as precedent.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    url=http://wellsy.wordpress.com/2009/04/13/ruth-bader-ginsburg-defends-citing-foreign-law-in-scotus-decisions/]Ruth Bader Ginsburg defends citing foreign law in SCOTUS decisions Wellsy's World[/url]
    Ginsburg said that a court is NOT bound by foreign law but can be influenced by good reasoning from foreign sources if it so chooses.

    What if the citation were to one of King Solomon's rulings? Is it okay for a judge to look to King Solomon and see if there was any wisdom in something that he did? If there were any merit in one of Solomon's judgments, can that same wisdom be used in an American court even though the wisdom comes from a foreign source? Or would that make one an unpatriotic "globalist"?

    What about British common law? If there is any wisdom in that, is it acceptable to use that wisdom?

    I think that the idea that is being railed against here is abhorrent. However, I do not think that the idea that we oppose is the same thing as what is actual in existence.
    Last edited by Simon W. Moon; 11-04-10 at 04:04 AM.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Voters ban judges from using international law

    I agree with Obvious Child. It makes no sense to not learn from the experiences of other countries when dealing with an issue or problem. However I don't believe that Judges should use foreign law when addressing cases with already pre-established precedence or Constitutional issues.

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    Re: Voters ban judges from using international law

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Okay boy genius (not you Dark), what happens if there is an issue that has never been dealt with in the US but has effectively been dealt with in foreign courts? By your reasoning, we cannot even look at how they dealt with it.

    The whole "not invented here" attitude is very much detrimental to America.
    Do you understand the difference between, "precedence", and, "law"? Foreign laws should never be used to decide cases in The United States. It takes a complete goofball to think that it would be ok to do so.

    In China, drunk drivers get the death penalty. Would you be ok for an American judge to issue a sentence of death to a convicted drunk driver, just because it's the law in China?

    The United States has a constitution and laws and those are the only barometers of justice that are to be used. Period!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Voters ban judges from using international law

    And, now, this clown wants to block the will of the people and make Sharia law applicable in American courts.

    Muslim Sues Oklahoma Over Shariah Ban - WSJ.com
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Voters ban judges from using international law

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Do you understand the difference between, "precedence", and, "law"?
    Yes. I wonder if you do.

    Foreign laws should never be used to decide cases in The United States.
    Wrong as usual Adpst. Foreign laws include treaties signed with the United States. Treaties that range from weapons control to tax transfer pricing. To say that we should never use foreign laws is to explicitly argue that we should not abide to our own treaties ratified by our own Congress. Furthermore, merely looking at a foreign case, and not necessarily the actual law does not mean that we are basing the entire US court decision on international outcomes. You appear to be very unaware of the various aspects of law.

    Uber fail there Adpst.


    It takes a complete goofball to think that it would be ok to do so.
    It takes a complete goofball to think that it's okay to explicitly mandate that US courts must ignore US treaties. Way to fail to read the actual bill there. Notice how it defines international law. It includes treatises the US has signed. That effectively makes it unconstitutional as it attempts to take away the Federal Government's sole ability to deal with foreign powers. States do not have the right to make international agreements. Nor do they have the right to ignore Federal law. By explicitly legislating that state courts must ignore federal law, they have enacted a highly unconstitutional law.

    In China, drunk drivers get the death penalty. Would you be ok for an American judge to issue a sentence of death to a convicted drunk driver, just because it's the law in China?
    Way to completely screw up what I was talking about. Go read what I wrote rather then just lying your ass off with exceptionally poor analogies. You do know people can actually read what I wrote and see you are being dishonest no?

    The United States has a constitution and laws and those are the only barometers of justice that are to be used. Period!!
    Except that the Oklahoma law explicitly forbids the application of US treaties. Which are US laws.

    You really should research before posting.

    It's rather pathetic how some people have to resort to outright lying about what I said to attempt to get back at me.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Voters ban judges from using international law

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    I agree with Obvious Child. It makes no sense to not learn from the experiences of other countries when dealing with an issue or problem. However I don't believe that Judges should use foreign law when addressing cases with already pre-established precedence or Constitutional issues.
    Not to mention it makes no sense to explicitly forbid state judges from applying US law. In the bill that was passed, international law is defined as treaties. The problem is that such treaties are US law. Ergo, state judges cannot apply US Law in US courts. What a stupid law.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Voters ban judges from using international law

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Yes. I wonder if you do.



    Wrong as usual Adpst. Foreign laws include treaties signed with the United States. Treaties that range from weapons control to tax transfer pricing. To say that we should never use foreign laws is to explicitly argue that we should not abide to our own treaties ratified by our own Congress. Furthermore, merely looking at a foreign case, and not necessarily the actual law does not mean that we are basing the entire US court decision on international outcomes. You appear to be very unaware of the various aspects of law.

    Uber fail there Adpst.




    It takes a complete goofball to think that it's okay to explicitly mandate that US courts must ignore US treaties. Way to fail to read the actual bill there. Notice how it defines international law. It includes treatises the US has signed. That effectively makes it unconstitutional as it attempts to take away the Federal Government's sole ability to deal with foreign powers. States do not have the right to make international agreements. Nor do they have the right to ignore Federal law. By explicitly legislating that state courts must ignore federal law, they have enacted a highly unconstitutional law.



    Way to completely screw up what I was talking about. Go read what I wrote rather then just lying your ass off with exceptionally poor analogies. You do know people can actually read what I wrote and see you are being dishonest no?



    Except that the Oklahoma law explicitly forbids the application of US treaties. Which are US laws.

    You really should research before posting.

    It's rather pathetic how some people have to resort to outright lying about what I said to attempt to get back at me.
    So, you support Sharia Law being used in courts in the United States? Honor killings and all?

    Is there a treaty authorizing the implementation of Sharia Law? There isn't, huh?
    Last edited by apdst; 11-05-10 at 10:47 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Voters ban judges from using international law

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    So, you support Sharia Law being used in courts in the United States? Honor killings and all?
    Is there a treaty authorizing the implementation of Sharia Law? There isn't, huh?
    Yeah, that's totally gonna happen.

    Furthermore...
    If a judge looks at anything that comes from anywhere besides the US it's a sign of terrible evil. Any judge who uses information or wisdom from one of them foreign lands outside the United States, like the stuff found in the Bible, is a wicked, wicked man who hates America.

    Just sayin...


    For the record, it should be noted that these judges aren't citing anything other than US law as binding precedent. But don't let that little incidental tidbit get the way of your outrage and fear.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Voters ban judges from using international law

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    Yeah, that's totally gonna happen.

    Furthermore...
    If a judge looks at anything that comes from anywhere besides the US it's a sign of terrible evil. Any judge who uses information or wisdom from one of them foreign lands outside the United States, like the stuff found in the Bible, is a wicked, wicked man who hates America.

    Just sayin...


    For the record, it should be noted that these judges aren't citing anything other than US law as binding precedent. But don't let that little incidental tidbit get the way of your outrage and fear.
    So, how do you feel about that Muslim cat sueing, because he wants Sharia Law to be used in American courts?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  10. #30
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    Re: Voters ban judges from using international law

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    So, how do you feel about that Muslim cat sueing, because he wants Sharia Law to be used in American courts?
    Sharia law is unconstitutional, any fear of it being implemented is unfounded.
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

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