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Thread: 95% of Marines uncomfortable serving with openly gay troops

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    Re: 95% of Marines uncomfortable serving with openly gay troops

    Since when has "discomfort" been grounds to infringe on equality? If a lot of people in the military are racist, do you fire all the black soldiers? If they're sexist, do you fire all the women?
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    Re: 95% of Marines uncomfortable serving with openly gay troops

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    They already attend tolerance training. They have to tolerate people of different races (and there are certainly racists in the Marines, I knew some personally). They have to tolerate people with different religious views (my husband was not a Christian Marine, but he was a good Marine). Tolerance training shouldn't be about making people victims. It should be about making those who have problems with someone based on a random characteristic, that is not in itself harmful to others, see that if the person is able to do the job, then that should be what matters. Anyone who can't/won't do their jobs are the problems.

    And those 2% or less should not have to worry about being discharged for something that does not affect others unless those others are allowing it to affect them because of their own prejudices/biases/beliefs.
    That is being totally disingenous. You are comparing homosexual behavior with race. Think about it, by allowing gays to openly serve and affording them special rights to serve openly; essentially this is saying hey I like anal sex with other men, therefore the rest of you have to tolerate it and attend sensitivity briefings. It's total b.s., they deserve no special rights or recognition and if they can't accept serving while closeted than don't join the services. They won't be missed, the military is having no problems
    meeting their enlistment quotas in this poor economy. There's no shortage of enlistees who are willing to accept the DADT policy as it stands now.
    Last edited by C-21 Cowboy; 11-04-10 at 04:19 PM.

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    Re: 95% of Marines uncomfortable serving with openly gay troops

    Quote Originally Posted by C-21 Cowboy View Post
    That is being totally disingenous. You are comparing homosexual behavior with race. Think about it, by allowing gays and affording them special rights
    to serve openly; essentially this is saying hey I like anal sex with other men, therefore the rest of you have to tolerate it and attend sensitivity briefings. It's total b.s., they deserve no special rights or recognition and if they can't accept serving while closeted than don't join the services. They won't be missed, the military is having no problems
    meeting their quotas in this poor economy. There's no shortage of enlistees who are willing to accept the DADT policy as it stands now.
    Serving openly is not a special right. And saying that you are gay is not saying that you like to have anal sex with other men. It is saying that you are attracted to other men if you are a man. This should not be a reason for a discharge. Especially when a guy can say that they like having anal sex with a woman and not get discharged no matter how many people are uncomfortable with such a statement. He may get charged with sodomy (although they would have to prove that he actually has committed sodomy since he was in the Marines), but he won't get discharged for it. A guy can also say that he likes having sex, period, with a woman who is 350lbs or with a woman that is a different race than himself and not be discharged for it, no matter how many people are uncomfortable knowing these things. I know there are plenty of people in the military who have issues with interracial dating/relationships. Also, the age of consent under the UCMJ is 16 (although it also depends on the laws of place, if the age of consent is higher than 16, then military members must abide by that). I knew a lot of people who were uncomfortable with this, particularly chiefs who had 16 year old daughters, because there are guys in the military who will specifically search for those girls to sleep with.

    And there are some military jobs that are severely undermanned. The job I held in the Navy is one of them. DADT hurts these, and does no real harm to those other jobs, so it should be gone, and gays should be allowed to serve openly.
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    Re: 95% of Marines uncomfortable serving with openly gay troops

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Serving openly is not a special right. And saying that you are gay is not saying that you like to have anal sex with other men. It is saying that you are attracted to other men if you are a man. This should not be a reason for a discharge. Especially when a guy can say that they like having anal sex with a woman and not get discharged no matter how many people are uncomfortable with such a statement. He may get charged with sodomy (although they would have to prove that he actually has committed sodomy since he was in the Marines), but he won't get discharged for it. A guy can also say that he likes having sex, period, with a woman who is 350lbs or with a woman that is a different race than himself and not be discharged for it, no matter how many people are uncomfortable knowing these things. I know there are plenty of people in the military who have issues with interracial dating/relationships. Also, the age of consent under the UCMJ is 16 (although it also depends on the laws of place, if the age of consent is higher than 16, then military members must abide by that). I knew a lot of people who were uncomfortable with this, particularly chiefs who had 16 year old daughters, because there are guys in the military who will specifically search for those girls to sleep with.

    And there are some military jobs that are severely undermanned. The job I held in the Navy is one of them. DADT hurts these, and does no real harm to those other jobs, so it should be gone, and gays should be allowed to serve openly.
    B.S.
    DADT is not causing any staffing issues. I want statistics on that, claiming it does not make it so. Staffing issues
    are more related to enlistees who can't meet the height / weight physical standards, or do poorly on the ASVAB to qualify for more technical jobs. Gays are not crawling out of the woodwork to enlist and they aren't being booted out any more than other individuals who are deemed unfit for service; regardless of the reasons. It's pure propaganda illicited by the pro-gay agenda of which you apparently are a member.

    Serving is not a right, it's a privilege and homosexuals deserve no special recognition to serve openly than someone who prefers sex with farm animals. Stay in the CLOSET. Period, end of subject...bottom line up front BLUF.

    I believe we're done here.

    Good day.
    Last edited by C-21 Cowboy; 11-04-10 at 04:34 PM.

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    Re: 95% of Marines uncomfortable serving with openly gay troops

    Quote Originally Posted by C-21 Cowboy View Post
    B.S
    DADT is not causing any staffing issues. I want statistics on that, claiming it does not make it so. Staffing issues
    are more related to enlistees who can't meet the height / weight physical standards, or do poorly on the ASVAB to qualify for more technical jobs. Gays are not crawling out of the woodwork to enlist and they aren't being booted out any more than other individuals who are deemed unfit for service; regardless of the reasons. It's pure propaganda illicited by the pro-gay agenda of which you apparently are a member.

    Serving is not a right, it's a privilege and homosexuals deserve no special recognition to serve openly than someone who prefers sex with farm animals. Stay in the CLOSET. Period, end of subject...bottom line up front BLUF.

    I believe we're done here.

    Good day.
    You're not going to win this one. I have had personal experience with knowing people who were discharged for just being gay, that hurt our manning. The Navy offers Nukes $40K+ to reenlist and it costs over $1M to train one Navy Nuke. I personally received $30K, tax free, 7 years ago when I reenlisted and gave up $60K to reenlist again.

    I knew 2 guys who would have been punished for what they were caught doing but still allowed to stay in the military if the military allowed gay personnel. I also knew a girl who signed the paperwork saying she was gay for the discharge because she found a job that offered complete spousal benefits for her partner. We talked often, and I know that she would have at least finished her enlistment had the opportunity not been given for her to get out under DADT. And if the military would have treated her partner the same that they do heterosexual partners, then she would have stayed in the Navy as her career. These are just people I knew personally. I'm sure there have been many others. And everyone knows that the military has discharged Arabic translators, who are vital while we're in conflicts with people in the ME, for being gay.

    My department of more than 400 people aboard the carrier had at least a dozen guys that everyone knew were gay, including one of the two that I mentioned above. We had another 2 gay women and several women who were bi. All were open about their sexuality and no one cared. We were much more concerned with those people who weren't doing their job. Because that is what matters. It shouldn't matter who someone is attracted to or even how someone has sex in determining a person's ability to serve. What should matter is that the person can do their job and not interfere with others doing their jobs. And someone else being uncomfortable with a person being homosexual is the problem of the person who is uncomfortable with it, not the one who is homosexual.
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    Re: 95% of Marines uncomfortable serving with openly gay troops

    I like how he just called serving openly a "special right."

    Yes, ladies in gentlemen, these people say being able to serve in the military without being forced to hide who you are is a SPECIAL RIGHT FOR GAAAAAAYS. Hhahahahaha.

    Hey, uh, what happens to a straight soldier if he happens to mention he has a girlfriend?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: 95% of Marines uncomfortable serving with openly gay troops

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You're not going to win this one. I have had personal experience with knowing people who were discharged for just being gay, that hurt our manning. The Navy offers Nukes $40K+ to reenlist and it costs over $1M to train one Navy Nuke. I personally received $30K, tax free, 7 years ago when I reenlisted and gave up $60K to reenlist again.

    I knew 2 guys who would have been punished for what they were caught doing but still allowed to stay in the military if the military allowed gay personnel. I also knew a girl who signed the paperwork saying she was gay for the discharge because she found a job that offered complete spousal benefits for her partner. We talked often, and I know that she would have at least finished her enlistment had the opportunity not been given for her to get out under DADT. And if the military would have treated her partner the same that they do heterosexual partners, then she would have stayed in the Navy as her career. These are just people I knew personally. I'm sure there have been many others. And everyone knows that the military has discharged Arabic translators, who are vital while we're in conflicts with people in the ME, for being gay.

    My department of more than 400 people aboard the carrier had at least a dozen guys that everyone knew were gay, including one of the two that I mentioned above. We had another 2 gay women and several women who were bi. All were open about their sexuality and no one cared. We were much more concerned with those people who weren't doing their job. Because that is what matters. It shouldn't matter who someone is attracted to or even how someone has sex in determining a person's ability to serve. What should matter is that the person can do their job and not interfere with others doing their jobs. And someone else being uncomfortable with a person being homosexual is the problem of the person who is uncomfortable with it, not the one who is homosexual.
    There's no one in the service, that can't be replaced.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: 95% of Marines uncomfortable serving with openly gay troops

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    There's no one in the service, that can't be replaced.
    Yeah, but it requires a lot more money to do so if you have to keep offering higher and higher enlistment and/or reenlistment bonuses.
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    Re: 95% of Marines uncomfortable serving with openly gay troops

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Yeah, but it requires a lot more money to do so if you have to keep offering higher and higher enlistment and/or reenlistment bonuses.
    Right now little to no bonuses are being offered...

    And yet they are turning folks down.
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    Re: 95% of Marines uncomfortable serving with openly gay troops

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    There's no one in the service, that can't be replaced.
    As a man with some apparent military experience you should know that replacements aren't instant and they aren't free.

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