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Thread: 95% of Marines uncomfortable serving with openly gay troops

  1. #231
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    Re: 95% of Marines uncomfortable serving with openly gay troops

    It lloks like DADT will not be repealed by this Congress as they don't have the votes to do it and they sure as hell won't have them next year........
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: 95% of Marines uncomfortable serving with openly gay troops

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Nice spin but don't ask means that and you keep saying they are asking
    "Don't Ask" means that a person cannot be officially asked about their sexuality and/or ordered/harassed to answer such a question. A fellow servicemember is even allowed to ask if another is gay (I did), and not get into trouble for it. Just like the asked servicemember can answer if they want or they can choose not to answer. And asking such a question would automatically make the answer "unofficial". However, if the questions are less specific and/or answers to general questions more specific coming from a gay servicemember, then they can get reported for "telling" they are gay if the wrong person heard them (although, most likely this would not start an investigation by itself).

    The biggest issues actually deal more with them not being able to post things on their webpages that state their sexuality or that they cannot "marry", even in an unrecognized by our government ceremony, someone they actually want to marry like heterosexuals can, without fear of discharge.
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    Re: 95% of Marines uncomfortable serving with openly gay troops

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    I think that all you civilians that are trashing the Marine Corps for not living up to your social standards should enlist and change it from the inside. Of course, you'd have to meet our standards first.

    What your attitudes tell me is that you haven't a clue what your military branches even are. Flambouyent homosexuals do not enlist in the Marine Corps. Those homosexuals that do enlist fit into the mold of the alpha male well enough that they aren't noticed. It is very common place to look down upon gays and to veiw such activity as less than manly. We want our Marine Corps to be strong and prepared to be violent and merciless. These are not traits the gay communities develop. And since we are the brute force and meticulous weapon of the military, limp wristed gays simply don't fit. Telling a Marine that he must undress in front of and simply accept what his society has been training him to think of as shameful will introduce problems most of you are clueless about. First you must understand the Marine Corps.

    But before the lot of you try to fool yourselves and pretend that you are socially superior to any Marine (or soldier), let's not forget that these warriors are products of the American idea of what a man is. With Hollywood producing gays as the butt of the joke since the 80s, ridiculed on television in our favorite comedies, and cast into the shadow of shame for centuries in virtually every single culture on earth, U.S. Marines are social products of your world and society. Demanding men, who are trained to follow and give orders, to fight the fight for gay rights when even Californians refuse to give them marriage rights is cowardly.

    Accepting homosexual activity as just another version of being a man is a mind set that will not come easy. I won't even go into the technical issues of accepting open gays into an organization like the Marine Corps because I don't believe most of you have a clue anyway. This is what happens when you run from military service and **** on those that don't for not meeting your social needs to feel better about yourselves.

    Gays in the military is an inevitable event. Unfortunately, even after the military is forced to accept this new prescription, civilians across the nation will continue to deny them their rights to marry and wear an NFL jersey....both of which are fraught with less technical difficulties than incorporation into the Marine Corps.
    Is this the way other service members around here feel? If so, nuff said.
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  4. #234
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    Re: 95% of Marines uncomfortable serving with openly gay troops

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    So...

    ...Where do you stand on this issue exactly?^
    I believe it is inevitable. I, along with the vast majority of military leadership, believe DADT has been an absolute burden (the numbers prove this). I believe that the troop forces, especially the Marine Corps, will see little repercussion from this because gays will not be eager to single themselves out. I believe that accepting open homosexuality into the military will be largely an obvioous Air Force and Navy scene. However, I also believe that there will be issues of unit cohesion within the Army and Marine Corps because of the close proximity cultures, especially the Corps.

    But the most pathetic thing about this is that the loudest voices for gay rights will go no where near militay service and will leave it up to those who do serve to bear their burdens.
    Last edited by MSgt; 11-27-10 at 10:29 AM.

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    Re: 95% of Marines uncomfortable serving with openly gay troops

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Is this the way other service members around here feel? If so, nuff said.
    Well I don't know. I posted as an individual Marine. I do not lead the team of service members around here. This thread is about the Marine Corps, not the general service member. This situation is going to affect all four differently because of the specialized natures and missions. Unit cohesion in the Marine Corps has a great deal more importance attached to it than in the Air Force. The close living conditions of Marines and Sailors are not mimicked in the Army. Etc. So when people produce Pentagon numbers that do not reflect the branches broken down, the numbers are a bit deceitful.

    DADT is also an issue largely misunderstood by civilians. As the numbers show, the DADT has been a burden. It was a way for non-gays to get out of obligation....

    Code:
    YEAR    Coast Guard   Marines   Navy   Army      Air Force       Total
     
    1994          0          36      258    136        187            617
    1995         15          69      269    184        235            772
    1996         12          60      315    199        284            870
    1997         10          78      413    197        309           1,007
    1998         14          77      345    312        415           1,163
    1999         12          97      314    271        352           1,046
    2000         19         114      358    573        177           1,241
    2001         14         115      314    638        217           1,273
    2002         29         109      218    429        121            906
    2003          -          -        -      -          -             787
    2004         15          59      177    325        92             668
    2005         16          75      177    386        88             742
    2006          -          -        -      -          -             623
    2007          -          -        -      -          -             627
    2008          -          -        -      -          -             619
    2009          -          -        -      -          -             428
     
    Total        156       889     3,158    3,650      2,477         13,389
    Notice how the numbers rose when the order to get rid of "gays" came down? Notice how these numbers escallated all the way to 9/11? And do we notice how quickly it became unacceptable to simply proclaim homosexuality to get out of war deployment? This is no coincidence. The military has largely been ignoring DADT because it's BS. This is why the Air Force quickly jumped on that federal judge's band wagon and ended DADT as their policy. This is why the Pentagon came out and suspended DADT for all branches shortly after. We are fed up with it. But wasn't it the White House that came out later and insisted that DADT remain the policy until they decide? It's the same old story. Good credit will always be stolen by politicians and bad credit will always be hoisted towards the military. Politicians drive us into war via their failure and then insist that the military bring them victory while following their irresponsible politically based rules. Of course, any military imperfection (under Republican and Democrat meddling) becomes an excuse for civilians to declare total failure, but when that victory comes its all about what great diplomats the fat asses in Washington were. And here we are with DADT being an issue that the military was all about ending, but are not allowed because Washington politicians want their credit for getting rid of it in the end.

    It's Washington that forces the issue and non-serving gays that insist that serving gays bear their social burdens. Most of the military is just fed up with the whole affair. But like I stated, loong after gays have "rights" in the military, they will still be denied marriage in the same civilian courts that insist that they have the right to die for their coutnry, but not allowed to be happy in it. Add Hollywood, TV, the NFL, and any other organization of civilian manhood and gays are hardly achieving equality. People want the military to be the last bastion of anti-gay hold outs, but forcing an organization of professionals to obey orders is far easier than asking a bunch of civilians to live up to their bitching and do the right thing. Good luck forcing the civilian world to obey orders so that gays can feel better about themselves.
    Last edited by MSgt; 11-27-10 at 12:01 PM.

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    Re: 95% of Marines uncomfortable serving with openly gay troops

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    I believe it is inevitable. I, along with the vast majority of military leadership, believe DADT has been an absolute burden (the numbers prove this). I believe that the troop forces, especially the Marine Corps, will see little repercussion from this because gays will not be eager to single themselves out. I believe that accepting open homosexuality into the military will be largely an obvioous Air Force and Navy scene. However, I also believe that there will be issues of unit cohesion within the Army and Marine Corps because of the close proximity cultures, especially the Corps.

    But the most pathetic thing about this is that the loudest voices for gay rights will go no where near militay service and will leave it up to those who do serve to bear their burdens
    .
    Here, Here.........The truth is its no skin off their ass...........I would lovve to see DD do a tour of duty in the Navy,,,,spend 90 days at sea at a time..
    Last edited by Navy Pride; 11-27-10 at 07:15 PM.
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    Re: 95% of Marines uncomfortable serving with openly gay troops

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Here, Here.........The truth is its no skin off their ass...........I would lovve to see DD do a tour of duty in the Navy,,,,spend 90 days at sea at a time..
    It affects the people who are discharged, and everyone they've fought with. Air Force kicked out a guy who won 9 air medals. What do you think the men whose lives he saved think about that?
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  8. #238
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    Re: 95% of Marines uncomfortable serving with openly gay troops

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Here, Here.........The truth is its no skin off their ass...........I would lovve to see DD do a tour of duty in the Navy,,,,spend 90 days at sea at a time..
    You need to watch stuff like this NP. You know very well that I am a strong supporter of gays serving openly. And not only have I done 2 WestPacs, one of which lasted almost 10 months, but I also did a four month Surge. I lived with openly gay women. And I knew was in a department with openly gay men. Not a surprise to me, but perhaps it is to you, we never had a single incident of an unwanted advance in either my department or any other department on the ship of a gay man toward another man. We did have several straight men though who made unwanted advances of the women, whom that didn't even share berthing and/or shower space with.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: 95% of Marines uncomfortable serving with openly gay troops

    Aren't the marines known as the "bullet catchers" of the military?
    Last edited by SheWolf; 11-27-10 at 09:38 PM.

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    Re: 95% of Marines uncomfortable serving with openly gay troops

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    "Don't Ask" means that a person cannot be officially asked about their sexuality and/or ordered/harassed to answer such a question. A fellow servicemember is even allowed to ask if another is gay (I did), and not get into trouble for it. Just like the asked servicemember can answer if they want or they can choose not to answer. And asking such a question would automatically make the answer "unofficial". However, if the questions are less specific and/or answers to general questions more specific coming from a gay servicemember, then they can get reported for "telling" they are gay if the wrong person heard them (although, most likely this would not start an investigation by itself).

    The biggest issues actually deal more with them not being able to post things on their webpages that state their sexuality or that they cannot "marry", even in an unrecognized by our government ceremony, someone they actually want to marry like heterosexuals can, without fear of discharge.
    Poor gays so deprived lets all cry a bucketful

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