Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4567 LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 62

Thread: Social Security not as broke as we thought

  1. #51
    Sage
    pbrauer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Oregon
    Last Seen
    11-27-15 @ 03:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    25,394

    Re: Social Security not as broke as we thought

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Can you give me some examples of other insurance programs that are guaranteed to pay out monthly benefits until death provided that someone simply survives to a specified age? Thanks.
    I'm not even going to try, Social Security is a social insurance plan.


    What was the annualized return over the worst 40 years in the stock market's history?
    I don't know or care, just look at what happened to those people with 401K's. The stock market is very risky, there are winners and losers.


    No, SS pays benefits to everyone who reaches retirement age regardless of their ability to work.
    Social Security pays benefits to people of working age who for some physical reason can no longer work.

    Disability Planner: Social Security Protection If You Become Disabled

    Once it was. Now it's not.
    Still is. A good example is those people who worked for Enron and lost their pensions.


  2. #52
    Girthless
    RightinNYC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Last Seen
    01-23-11 @ 11:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    25,894

    Re: Social Security not as broke as we thought

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    I'm not even going to try, Social Security is a social insurance plan.
    lol

    Oh, well if you say so!

    I don't know or care, just look at what happened to those people with 401K's. The stock market is very risky, there are winners and losers.
    It's very clear you don't know, because if you did, you would understand why your argument is so foolish. Believe it or not, it's possible to have plans that invest in the stock market without investing everything in individual stocks. If SS had invested part of its money in an index fund, it wouldn't be facing the problems it is now.

    Social Security pays benefits to people of working age who for some physical reason can no longer work.

    Disability Planner: Social Security Protection If You Become Disabled
    Yes, I know. However, we're talking about what most people consider when they talk about SS. That kicks in when you reach a particular age, not when you stop being able to work.

    Still is. A good example is those people who worked for Enron and lost their pensions.
    No, it's not a good example. I don't really understand why you think that.
    Last edited by RightinNYC; 11-08-10 at 02:04 AM.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  3. #53
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:10 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,805

    Re: Social Security not as broke as we thought

    RightinNYC

    check this out and see what is happening on the grass roots level

    Poll: Fix Social Security by Taxing Wealthy - CBS MoneyWatch.com

    According to Gallup, 2/3 of the American people favor taxing all income for FICA purposes. That cuts across traditional partisan lines. So you asked me to let you know when it happens and the answer is that it already is.

    Let me be honest with you and I hope you are honest with me. I find it to be less than intellectually honest when some are critical of SS and maintain that it is not financially a solid program that can be sustained for the future while at the same time rejecting the fix of massive new monies into the system, a.k.a. popping the cap as I have suggested and as 2/3 of Americans favor.

    Its as if you are saying "look, this is a dollars and cents problem but it cannot be solved with more dollars and cents". And I suspect the reason that is said is because the opponents real objection is not to the numbers it is to the program itself based on conservative or libertarian ideological beliefs.

    In other words: you are against it because you want to be against it. I think Groucho Marx had a song about that.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7cry-4pyy8
    Last edited by haymarket; 11-08-10 at 11:37 AM.

  4. #54
    Sage
    pbrauer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Oregon
    Last Seen
    11-27-15 @ 03:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    25,394

    Re: Social Security not as broke as we thought

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    lol

    Oh, well if you say so!
    I do.

    Social security is primarily a social insurance program providing social protection, or protection against socially recognized conditions, including poverty, old age, disability, unemployment and others.

    ...

    Actuaries define social insurance as a government-sponsored insurance program that is defined by statute, serves a defined population, and is funded through premiums or taxes paid by or on behalf of participants. Participation is either compulsory or the program is subsidized heavily enough that most eligible individuals choose to participate.
    Social security - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


  5. #55
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:20 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,105

    Re: Social Security not as broke as we thought

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    It's very clear you don't know, because if you did, you would understand why your argument is so foolish. Believe it or not, it's possible to have plans that invest in the stock market without investing everything in individual stocks. If SS had invested part of its money in an index fund, it wouldn't be facing the problems it is now.
    if you account for inflation and combined annualized growth, the average return of the S&P 500 from Jan 1 1948 to Dec 31 2009 was 7.23%. play with the dates to put us in a Post-Reagan-Era tax world (1982), and the rate jumps to 7.98.

    Now, according to that Great God Of Sources (Wikipedia), the median income for an American household in 2006 was a little over 50K. Because cpwill is lazy, for the purpose of this figuring, we are going to assume that the workers involved will earn median income their entire life, though in reality they will start off earning less and end up earning more.

    the FICA contribution is 7.65%, which out of $50,000 is $3,825. $3,825 broken down into months is $318.75. If you were to start bringing that income in (we'll cheat up and say everyone finishes) after you finish college, at age 22, and work until you are 65 (though we all know it's about to go up to 67), investing $318.75 every month with an annual return of 7.98%, then you will retire with an account worth $1,353,432. IN TODAY'S MONEY. placing that into an extremely conservative account (hell, an annuity) that can generate around 5% interest a year gives you an annual income (again, in todays money) of $67,671 and 60 cents. broken down, again, into monthly payments that comes out to a monthly benefit of $5,639.30; the average social security monthly benefit for a retired worker (by comparison) is $1,164.

    incidentally; if the retirement age rises to 67, then that 5600 bucks a month rises to 6600 bucks a month .

    i'm only sayin'. privatize the damn thing already.

  6. #56
    Sage
    Taylor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    US
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:15 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    6,170

    Re: Social Security not as broke as we thought

    So... If I empty my bank account to buy a big screen TV, I can recoup the cost by writing myself an iou and depositing it in a trust fund? Not only do I have the TV, but I still have $2000 in assets?

  7. #57
    Sage
    Taylor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    US
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:15 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    6,170

    Re: Social Security not as broke as we thought

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    simple math
    pop the $106K cap on taxable income for FICA contributions
    problem is solved
    SS is a safety net, not a retirement plan. What you suggest would change the nature of SS. Besides, why continue expanding an already bloated program.

    The best solution is a delayed/phased increase in the retirement age to maintain benefits rather than continuing to expand them as life expectancy increases. If we could prevent congress from spending any surpluses... it might also make sense to index contributions based on population, so future "boomers" pay for themselves rather than shifting an increased burden to their children and grandchildren.

  8. #58
    Sage
    Taylor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    US
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:15 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    6,170

    Re: Social Security not as broke as we thought

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    I'm not even going to try, Social Security is a social insurance plan
    First, it's a program, not a plan.

    Second, saying that "social insurance" is a type of insurance is like saying a "panda bear" is a type of bear. Sure there are a few surface similarities, but that stops with any meaningful comparison. We no longer call pandas "panda bears" to do away with common misconceptions. When people refer to SS as insurance, they are only trying to create them.

  9. #59
    Sage
    pbrauer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Oregon
    Last Seen
    11-27-15 @ 03:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    25,394

    Re: Social Security not as broke as we thought

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    First, it's a program, not a plan.

    Second, saying that "social insurance" is a type of insurance is like saying a "panda bear" is a type of bear. Sure there are a few surface similarities, but that stops with any meaningful comparison. We no longer call pandas "panda bears" to do away with common misconceptions. When people refer to SS as insurance, they are only trying to create them.
    From the Social Security Act passed by Congress in 1935:

    DUTIES OF THE SOCIAL SECURITY BOARD

    SEC. 702. The Board shall perform the duties imposed upon it by this Act and shall also have the duty of studying and making recommendations as to the most effective methods of providing economic security through social insurance, and as to legislation and matters of administrative policy concerning old-age pensions, unemployment compensation, accident compensation, and related subjects
    Social Security Online - History


  10. #60
    Mr. Professional
    Mensch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Last Seen
    08-24-17 @ 04:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,666
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Social Security not as broke as we thought

    Pay-as-you-go?

    Assuming that were true (which it hasn't been since LBJ), the baby boom generation is still sure to bankrupt the system. Why? Because soon the retirees will start outnumbering the working population. The scenario is worse in Europe, where there are a ton of baby-boomers and a vastly shrinking working population.

    Compared to Medicare, Social Security is not as bad.

Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4567 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •