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Thread: Social Security not as broke as we thought

  1. #41
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    Re: Social Security not as broke as we thought

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    could you provide the numerical evidence of this statement please?
    Are you seriously asking me for evidence that SS is fiscally unsound?

    Trustees Reports

    Start with the trustees reports and work from there.


    Meaning no disrespect to you - I could not care less if that changes the nature of the program in some eyes. It is of no consequence to me. If it saves the program and makes it economically viable for decades to come, then it is fine with me and an excellent use of the governmental power to tax.
    And I don't think that neverending expansion of welfare programs on the backs of high earners is a good idea. So I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

    Is someone actually proposing this or is these just over-the-top hyperbole?
    I'm pointing out one of the flaws in your "most people will be happy so it's a good idea!" logic.
    Last edited by RightinNYC; 11-07-10 at 04:50 PM.
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    Re: Social Security not as broke as we thought

    Where in that linked to report does it discuss eliminating the cap on FICA taxes while freezing benefits at the current level to make SS fiscally sound over the next decades. Because that is the program I am advocating to make it so.

    For you to say that SS is not fiscally sound and then for me to give you a change which will make it fiscally sound and then for you to come back and say but its not fiscally sound now - is beyond silly.
    Last edited by haymarket; 11-07-10 at 06:03 PM.

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    Re: Social Security not as broke as we thought

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    It's not actually that simple, for the reason I mentioned above. Increasing FICA increases future liabilities as well. Increasing the retirement age helps to a degree, but you'd have to adjust the underlying formulas in that case as well.
    To 'fix' Social Security all you need to do is raise the cap to a higher amout. To create the trust fund we have today, President Reagan and the Greenspan Commission in 1983 excerated the cap rates.


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    Re: Social Security not as broke as we thought

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Where in that linked to report does it discuss eliminating the cap on FICA taxes while freezing benefits at the current level to make SS fiscally sound over the next decades. Because that is the program I am advocating to make it so.
    And I already explained 4 or 5 times that:

    1) I think that would be a very bad proposal for a multitude of reasons, and
    2) There is absolutely no chance of that happening, given the fight we see over an 8% increase on incomes over $250k.

    You can keep on saying "but my plan would fix it!", but if your plan will never happen, then it doesn't really mean crap. SS could also be "fixed" by raising the tax rate to 25%, but that doesn't mean the program is fiscally sound (or will be).

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    To 'fix' Social Security all you need to do is raise the cap to a higher amout. To create the trust fund we have today, President Reagan and the Greenspan Commission in 1983 excerated the cap rates.
    It's like you missed the entire discussion where we've addressed this repeatedly.
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    Re: Social Security not as broke as we thought

    which do you think more likele; reduction in benefits or increasing the cap?

    methinks those arguing for decreasing benefits are going to have to increase if not get rid of th cap in order to make it palatable.

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    Re: Social Security not as broke as we thought

    fromn RightinNYC

    There is absolutely no chance of that happening, given the fight we see over an 8% increase on incomes over $250k.
    That is your opinion. Mine is this. Given a choice between the following

    A - allowing the richest 7% to avoid the same FICA tax the rest of us pay and risk their own SS pensions, and
    B- taxing all income for FICA at the same levels to save SS for our pensions

    the American people will rush to that proposition in record numbers and select option B in a heartbeat. And it will be presented to them this way ... if not by the republicans ... by someone with a voice and with power.

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    Re: Social Security not as broke as we thought

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    fromn RightinNYC



    That is your opinion. Mine is this. Given a choice between the following

    A - allowing the richest 7% to avoid the same FICA tax the rest of us pay and risk their own SS pensions, and
    B- taxing all income for FICA at the same levels to save SS for our pensions

    the American people will rush to that proposition in record numbers and select option B in a heartbeat. And it will be presented to them this way ... if not by the republicans ... by someone with a voice and with power.
    Let me know when that happens.
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    Re: Social Security not as broke as we thought

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    When everyone pays that 12.4% tax on their first $106k in earnings, that money is credited toward their retirement. They will (theoretically) get back that money in an amount commensurate with what they put into the system. That makes the program less like a welfare system and more like a mandatory retirement program.
    Social Security in NOT, let me repeat NOT a retirement program, it's an INSURANCE program. This is why investing Social Security funds in the stock market would never work - it's too risky. Social Security pays benefit to people who no long are able to work. It's a safety net that prevents people from falling into poverty.


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    Re: Social Security not as broke as we thought

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Social Security in NOT, let me repeat NOT a retirement program, it's an INSURANCE program.
    Can you give me some examples of other insurance programs that are guaranteed to pay out monthly benefits until death provided that someone simply survives to a specified age? Thanks.

    Moreover, I'm really not sure what you think this argument proves.

    This is why investing Social Security funds in the stock market would never work - it's too risky.
    What was the annualized return over the worst 40 years in the stock market's history?

    Social Security pays benefit to people who no long are able to work.
    No, SS pays benefits to everyone who reaches retirement age regardless of their ability to work.

    It's a safety net that prevents people from falling into poverty
    Once it was. Now it's not.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Social Security not as broke as we thought

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Social Security in NOT, let me repeat NOT a retirement program, it's an INSURANCE program. This is why investing Social Security funds in the stock market would never work - it's too risky. Social Security pays benefit to people who no long are able to work. It's a safety net that prevents people from falling into poverty.
    You do realize if a private company did this type of program it would be illegal. Once again the democrats put their political agenda above the law.

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