• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

That nonsense is nothing like what happened.
1: Its not supposed to be a parallel to what happened in Iraq- it addresses the ridiculous notion that stating what you think to be the truth as fact is a lie
2: Your anticipated avoidance is noted.
 
No, its not. Guessing is different than knowing what you are saying is wrong.

Guessing is not lying, but guessing and passing it off as fact, is in fact lying. End of story.

When Clinton didn't believe a BJ was sex, was he lying when he said he didn't have sexual ralations with that woman? Of course he was lying.

Kennedy lied to his wife and about the Jupiter missiles.. LBJ lied when he said he wouldn't send American boys to fight somebody else's war and the Gulf of Tonkin incident. Clinton lied about cigars and BJs. Bush Jr lied about WMDs. Reagan lied about Iran Contra. Nixon lied just about everything. Bush Sr lied when he said he would never raise taxes. Can't think what Carter lied about. I don't think Truman or Ike lied.
 
Last edited:
Guessing is not lying, but guessing and passing it off as fact, is in fact lying. End of story.
I say again:

Yawn.

Me: "Hey -- is Steve across the street?"
You: Having seen Steve just walk across the street "Yep"
Me: "You sure"
You: "yep"
Me: "Great!"
I walk across the street. Steve is not there, having just gotten into his girlfriends car. I walk back to talk to you
Me: "Steve isn't there -- why did you lie to me?"
You: "......... (add words here)
 
I say again:

Yawn.

Me: "Hey -- is Steve across the street?"
You: Having seen Steve just walk across the street "Yep"
Me: "You sure"
You: "yep"
Me: "Great!"
I walk across the street. Steve is not there, having just gotten into his girlfriends car. I walk back to talk to you
Me: "Steve isn't there -- why did you lie to me?"
You: "......... (add words here)

No need to be vague...
(all quotes valid from 1992 to 2004)
Pres Bill Clinton- "Saddam has WMDs and is a credible threat. Thats why I repeatedly attacked him for 8 years."
Sen Hillary Clinton- "he has them...we know he has them. He has used them. He will use them again. Thats why we have to vote to allow the president to hold him accountable."
Sec State Madeline Albright- "We know he has them. We know he has not accounted for them. We know because we sold them to him. He is a threat. He has used them. He will use them again. Thats why we have to vote to allow the president to hold him accountable."
Sen Tom Daschle- "He has WMDs. He has used WMDs on his people and the Iranians. He is an active threat. Thats why we have to vote to allow the president to hold him accountable."
Clintons Def Sec William Cohen- "He has them. He has lied about them. He has blocked UN inspection teams. We have watched them hold inspection teams at front gates while trucks rolled out the back gate. Then rolled back in after he left. He has failed to comply with UN requirements. Thats why we have to vote to allow the president to hold him accountable."
Damn near every other elected democrat- "He has them. We know he has them. He has used them in the past. He is still a threat. Thats why we have to vote to allow the president to hold him accountable."
George Bush "He has them. There are stockpiles unaccounted for. He is a credible threat"
Mindless liberal ideologues "George Bush lied!"
 
I say again:

Yawn.

Me: "Hey -- is Steve across the street?"
You: Having seen Steve just walk across the street "Yep"
Me: "You sure"
You: "yep"
Me: "Great!"
I walk across the street. Steve is not there, having just gotten into his girlfriends car. I walk back to talk to you
Me: "Steve isn't there -- why did you lie to me?"
You: "......... (add words here)

That's a horrible example. Steve was across the street when I told you he was. WMDs had been destroyed a decade earlier.
Bush did not know for a fact that Saddam had not destroyed all his WMDs. There was intel both ways. He did not state that he believed Saddam had WMDs, he stated that Saddam positively had WMDs, when the truth was he did not know for sure. He lied to everyone, even you.
 
Last edited:
No need to be vague...
(all quotes valid from 1992 to 2004)
Pres Bill Clinton- "Saddam has WMDs and is a credible threat. Thats why I repeatedly attacked him for 8 years."
Sen Hillary Clinton- "he has them...we know he has them. He has used them. He will use them again. Thats why we have to vote to allow the president to hold him accountable."
Sec State Madeline Albright- "We know he has them. We know he has not accounted for them. We know because we sold them to him. He is a threat. He has used them. He will use them again. Thats why we have to vote to allow the president to hold him accountable."
Sen Tom Daschle- "He has WMDs. He has used WMDs on his people and the Iranians. He is an active threat. Thats why we have to vote to allow the president to hold him accountable."
Clintons Def Sec William Cohen- "He has them. He has lied about them. He has blocked UN inspection teams. We have watched them hold inspection teams at front gates while trucks rolled out the back gate. Then rolled back in after he left. He has failed to comply with UN requirements. Thats why we have to vote to allow the president to hold him accountable."
Damn near every other elected democrat- "He has them. We know he has them. He has used them in the past. He is still a threat. Thats why we have to vote to allow the president to hold him accountable."
George Bush "He has them. There are stockpiles unaccounted for. He is a credible threat"
Mindless liberal ideologues "George Bush lied!"

Does it make you guys feel better if we say George didn't lie, he just made a stupid mistake? I guess for you it's better to be stupid than a liar.

On Sept. 18, 2002, CIA director George Tenet briefed President Bush in the Oval Office on top-secret intelligence that Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction, according to two former senior IA officers. Bush dismissed as worthless this information from the Iraqi foreign minister, a member of Saddam’s inner circle, although it turned out to be accurate in every detail. Tenet never brought it up again. Nor was the intelligence included in the National Intelligence Estimate of October 2002, which stated categorically that Iraq possessed WMD.

No one in Congress was aware of the secret intelligence that Saddam had no WMD as the House of Representatives and the Senate voted, a week after the submission of the NIE, on the Authorization for Use of Military Force in Iraq. The information, moreover, was not circulated within the CIA among those agents involved in operations to prove whether Saddam had WMD.

On April 23, 2006, CBS’s “60 Minutes” interviewed Tyler Drumheller, the former CIA chief of clandestine operations for Europe, who disclosed that the agency had received documentary intelligence from Naji Sabri, Saddam’s foreign minister, that Saddam did not have WMD. “We continued to validate him the whole way through,” said Drumheller. “The policy was set. The war in Iraq was coming, and they were looking for intelligence to fit into the policy, to justify the policy.”
 
Last edited:
Does it make you guys feel better if we say George didn't lie, he just made a stupid mistake? I guess for you it's better to be stupid than a liar.

On Sept. 18, 2002, CIA director George Tenet briefed President Bush in the Oval Office on top-secret intelligence that Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction, according to two former senior IA officers. Bush dismissed as worthless this information from the Iraqi foreign minister, a member of Saddam’s inner circle, although it turned out to be accurate in every detail. Tenet never brought it up again. Nor was the intelligence included in the National Intelligence Estimate of October 2002, which stated categorically that Iraq possessed WMD.

No one in Congress was aware of the secret intelligence that Saddam had no WMD as the House of Representatives and the Senate voted, a week after the submission of the NIE, on the Authorization for Use of Military Force in Iraq. The information, moreover, was not circulated within the CIA among those agents involved in operations to prove whether Saddam had WMD.

On April 23, 2006, CBS’s “60 Minutes” interviewed Tyler Drumheller, the former CIA chief of clandestine operations for Europe, who disclosed that the agency had received documentary intelligence from Naji Sabri, Saddam’s foreign minister, that Saddam did not have WMD. “We continued to validate him the whole way through,” said Drumheller. “The policy was set. The war in Iraq was coming, and they were looking for intelligence to fit into the policy, to justify the policy.”

Well...you COULD start with the actual reason..."Iraqs refusal to comply with UN resolutions regarding accountability and disposition of their WMDs."

Oh...lets just ASSUME that Saddam just dumped all those biological spores out in the middle of the desert. Or space aliens came and wisked them away. The simple FACT remains that George Bush had access to the same intel that the democrats had and EVERYONE made the same conclusions and lets be VERY honest...the ONLY reason we KNOW what we KNOW (and that you continue to bleat on about) is BECAUSE George Bush...unlike the UN and every other world leader ACTED.

SO...does it make me feel better that Saddam and his tribe are dead and gone? Yep. Does it make me feel better knowing there are still thousands of tons of actual weapons and biological spores that are unaccounted for? Nope. Would it have been better if the UN had ACTED instead of impotently passing one failed resolution after another? You bet. Would you and others still have found a reason to hate Bush? Yeah...Im pretty sure you would...
 
  • Like
Reactions: mpg
Does it make you guys feel better if we say George didn't lie, he just made a stupid mistake? I guess for you it's better to be stupid than a liar.

On Sept. 18, 2002, CIA director George Tenet briefed President Bush in the Oval Office on top-secret intelligence that Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction, according to two former senior IA officers. Bush dismissed as worthless this information from the Iraqi foreign minister, a member of Saddam’s inner circle, although it turned out to be accurate in every detail. Tenet never brought it up again. Nor was the intelligence included in the National Intelligence Estimate of October 2002, which stated categorically that Iraq possessed WMD.

No one in Congress was aware of the secret intelligence that Saddam had no WMD as the House of Representatives and the Senate voted, a week after the submission of the NIE, on the Authorization for Use of Military Force in Iraq. The information, moreover, was not circulated within the CIA among those agents involved in operations to prove whether Saddam had WMD.

On April 23, 2006, CBS’s “60 Minutes” interviewed Tyler Drumheller, the former CIA chief of clandestine operations for Europe, who disclosed that the agency had received documentary intelligence from Naji Sabri, Saddam’s foreign minister, that Saddam did not have WMD. “We continued to validate him the whole way through,” said Drumheller. “The policy was set. The war in Iraq was coming, and they were looking for intelligence to fit into the policy, to justify the policy.”

Or how about this as an alternative...it would make me feel just as good if you and all the other ideolgues said..."Bill Clinton, every elected democrat, and George Bush LIED!"
 
Or how about this as an alternative...it would make me feel just as good if you and all the other ideolgues said..."Bill Clinton, every elected democrat, and George Bush LIED!"

I already did.
 
Well...you COULD start with the actual reason..."Iraqs refusal to comply with UN resolutions regarding accountability and disposition of their WMDs."

..
Saddam feared an invasion by Iran. That is why he left a little doubt as to WMDs. The truth is they had been destroyed years ago and he had complied with UN resolutions. He could not show what didn't exist.
 
That's a horrible example. Steve was across the street when I told you he was.
Its a perfectly good example. By your argument, you lied.
 
“The policy was set. The war in Iraq was coming, and they were looking for intelligence to fit into the policy, to justify the policy.”

Opinions are like...
 
No need to be vague...
(all quotes valid from 1992 to 2004)
Pres Bill Clinton- "Saddam has WMDs and is a credible threat. Thats why I repeatedly attacked him for 8 years."
Sen Hillary Clinton- "he has them...we know he has them. He has used them. He will use them again. Thats why we have to vote to allow the president to hold him accountable."
Sec State Madeline Albright- "We know he has them. We know he has not accounted for them. We know because we sold them to him. He is a threat. He has used them. He will use them again. Thats why we have to vote to allow the president to hold him accountable."
Sen Tom Daschle- "He has WMDs. He has used WMDs on his people and the Iranians. He is an active threat. Thats why we have to vote to allow the president to hold him accountable."
Clintons Def Sec William Cohen- "He has them. He has lied about them. He has blocked UN inspection teams. We have watched them hold inspection teams at front gates while trucks rolled out the back gate. Then rolled back in after he left. He has failed to comply with UN requirements. Thats why we have to vote to allow the president to hold him accountable."
Damn near every other elected democrat- "He has them. We know he has them. He has used them in the past. He is still a threat. Thats why we have to vote to allow the president to hold him accountable."
George Bush "He has them. There are stockpiles unaccounted for. He is a credible threat"
Mindless liberal ideologues "George Bush lied!"
Recall that may of the quotes ( any many others) came in October 2002 just before the vote to authorize force against Iraq.
 
Its a perfectly good example. By your argument, you lied.

No I didn't. He was there when I said he was. He wasn't when you got there. He had left by then.
I have never said Bush was the only one that lied, but he was the biggest fish that lied.
 
Last edited:
No I didn't. He was there when I said he was.
According to the standards of your argument you made a statement of fact that you did know to me true -- and thus, you lied.
 
According to the standards of your argument you made a statement of fact that you did know to me true -- and thus, you lied.

No, I knew it was true because I saw him there and it was true. I never said how long he was going to stay there.
 
No, I knew it was true because I saw him there and it was true.
It was true when you saw him last. But that's now that you told me -- you said he IS there.
Thus, according to you, you lied.
 
It was true when you saw him last. But that's now that you told me -- you said he IS there.
Thus, according to you, you lied.

No lie. He was there when I told you. He left when you went over there.

OK this is enough. I think he lied. You don't think he lied. I will not change my mind and I don't expect you will either. We are just wasting time. Have a nice day.
 
Saddam feared an invasion by Iran. That is why he left a little doubt as to WMDs. The truth is they had been destroyed years ago and he had complied with UN resolutions. He could not show what didn't exist.

Which was HIS excuse for refusing to comply with 17 UN resolutions and gives truth to Bush's statement...
 
No lie. He was there when I told you. He left when you went over there.
Supposing facts not in evidence.

OK this is enough. I think he lied. You don't think he lied.
You -thnk- he lied, but cannot prove it.
 
Saddam feared an invasion by Iran. That is why he left a little doubt as to WMDs. The truth is they had been destroyed years ago and he had complied with UN resolutions. He could not show what didn't exist.
He couldn't fully comply with the UN resolutions without showing their destruction.
 
I already did.

Beautiful. I apologize. I missed the part where you readily admit that apparently Clinton et al are liars and intentinionally decieved everyone. Now...lets take that next step...do you have the integrity to admit that the only reason you have this 'moral high ground' from which to preach your regular "I hate Bush" rhetoric is because he actually took action? That the only reason we KNOW what we know today re Husseins intentional deception, the faulty intel from virtually every agency in the world, is that Bush didnt sit back and wait for the UN to pass another 17 failed resolutions? (I know...thats asking a lot...)
 
Actually the vote was not for war, but a vote to shirk their responsibility and allow the president to decide. Just saying . . . . :coffeepap

I understand, but they gave a man who wanted to optionally invade Iraq the power to do it. I just appreciate the people in Congress that knew better.
 
Back
Top Bottom