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Thread: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    I am hopeful that even with the trip you are on, you can see a difference between:



    and







    Clinton's admin said the pretty much the same about N.K. How'd that prediction work out? That's the problem with constantly kicking the can down the road. Eventually the can slices your foot open.
    And NK is not that type of threat and we won't invade NK. It won't happen.

    BTW, I'm not sure you're reading the things you quoted well. What do you think you see?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    And NK is not that type of threat and we won't invade NK. It won't happen.
    Of course not now. The time to do so was prior to them obtaining the nuke while Clinton was still president and claiming that NK was isolated and not a threat. Not necessarily an invasion, but definetly some form of action.

    BTW, I'm not sure you're reading the things you quoted well. What do you think you see?
    I see you claiming that after Desert Fox, the Iraqi threat was eliminated - "over".
    and that his people said that threat was over after the bombing.
    Then, after confronted with Clinton's actual quotes, you downgraded your comment to a degraded / lessened threat". Not quite the same things.

    his program degraded, his threat lessened.

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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Of course not now. The time to do so was prior to them obtaining the nuke while Clinton was still president and claiming that NK was isolated and not a threat. Not necessarily an invasion, but definetly some form of action.
    We weren't going to do it ever. China would never allow it, and we not going to fight China over this either.


    I see you claiming that after Desert Fox, the Iraqi threat was eliminated - "over".
    I'm claiming Clinton's people said that, so you can't use Clinton's claims as justification for Bush.


    Then, after confronted with Clinton's actual quotes, you downgraded your comment to a degraded / lessened threat". Not quite the same things.
    No, I continue the thought. I have never claimed "NO" threat. I've claim no threat justifying invasion, and that bush hyped the threat using doubted intell and mislead the American people.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    No, I continue the thought. I have never claimed "NO" threat. I've claim no threat justifying invasion, and that bush hyped the threat using doubted intell and mislead the American people.
    Then we all (including Clinton's administration) acknowledge that Iraq was a threat. Wether you think the threat was invasion worthy or not.. Who cares? When you are president you will get to see all of the intelligence and make a determination. Until then, too bad.

    I’m glad we finally had a president that was willing to do something about that threat before it grew into a threat that we could no longer confront. Saddam had every intention of returning to WMDs. Just like NK had every intention of returning to Nukes.
    Last edited by buck; 11-18-10 at 01:20 PM.

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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Then we all (including Clinton's administration) acknowledge that Iraq was a threat. Wether you think the threat was invasion worthy or not.. Who cares? When you are president you will get to see all of the intelligence and make a determination. Until then, too bad.

    I’m glad we finally had a president that was willing to do something about that threat before it grew into a threat that we could no longer confront. Saddam had every intention of returning to WMDs. Just like NK had every intention of returning to Nukes.
    There's no cone of silence secret intel out there. We all know effort to make judgements. Iraq simply didn't meet any reasonable standard. I can't go kill my neighbor for what he might do. Especially if I have limited his ability to do anything sginficant.

    Nor can we know with certainty anyone's intention. No one can read minds. We can only address what is known and done. We may plan for possibilities, but we can't claim that possibilities are equal to actual acts.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    There's no cone of silence secret intel out there. We all know effort to make judgements. Iraq simply didn't meet any reasonable standard.
    Based on what the intelligence community's of many different countries believed, even some against the war, Iraq did meet many individual's “reasonable standard”. Now, was that info mistaken? Possibly! We need to be proactive and will occasionally be required to act preemptively. You may not like it, but frankly, who cares wht you like?

    Nor can we know with certainty anyone's intention. No one can read minds. We can only address what is known and done. We may plan for possibilities, but we can't claim that possibilities are equal to actual acts.
    We do know that Saddam’s intention was to reconstitute his WMD programs once the pressure was off. He openly stated this under questioning by the FBI. Mind reading is not required. Many reasonable people knew that NK had the intention to reconstitute their nuke program. It’s why many were calling on Clinton to take a more aggressive approach. He didnt. Now NK has the nuke and is sharing the tech with many.

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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Based on what the intelligence community's of many different countries believed, even some against the war, Iraq did meet many individual's “reasonable standard”. Now, was that info mistaken? Possibly! We need to be proactive and will occasionally be required to act preemptively. You may not like it, but frankly, who cares wht you like?
    Did they really? And how many are many? Acting preemptively is only viable if there is an imminent threat. Doing so on maybes and mights just doesn't reach a reasoanable standard. It fact, it only meets the same standard Saddam used to justify invading Kuwait.


    We do know that Saddam’s intention was to reconstitute his WMD programs once the pressure was off. He openly stated this under questioning by the FBI. Mind reading is not required. Many reasonable people knew that NK had the intention to reconstitute their nuke program. It’s why many were calling on Clinton to take a more aggressive approach. He didnt. Now NK has the nuke and is sharing the tech with many.
    I intend on winning the lottery one day, but until I actually buy a ticket, it isn't really going to happen. And no, no one can KNOW what hasn't happened yet. They can believe, think, suspect, even give a reasonable guess, but not know. To know, they need either actual evidence, or mind reading and and other supernatural and superhuman abilities.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    When you don't act on the intelligence that you have, you end up with N.K. You can claim that Bush lied about the intelligence prior to the Iraq war. However, those assertions are not quite as certain as you choose to believe.

    Basically, I would rather the govt work on the intelligence that they have and be wrong, rather then not act because the intelligence has some doubters or is not 100.0% (as no intelligence ever is) and have the situation turn far worse.
    Last edited by buck; 11-20-10 at 04:08 PM.

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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Basically, I would rather the govt work on the intelligence that they have and be wrong, rather then not act because the intelligence has some doubters or is not 100.0% (as no intelligence ever is) and have the situation turn far worse.
    Even if it needlessly costs thousands of lives and a trillion dollars? If so, you should enlist or at least send the IRS more money to pay for it.
    "This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    Quote Originally Posted by USA-1 View Post
    Even if it needlessly costs thousands of lives and a trillion dollars? If so, you should enlist or at least send the IRS more money to pay for it.
    I guess we disagree with the needlessly part of your comment. If we had taken care of N.K. "needlessly" way back when, it would be far less likely they would be nuclear. Had we "needlessly" gotten more involved in WW2 prior to PH, countless lives probably would have been saved. There are countless examples.

    If we had not gone into Iraq, I have little doubt Saddam would have eventually obtained the WMD's he wanted. At that time we would all be able to look back and wonder why we didn't finish things up when we had the chance.

    It's only needless until the consequences of not taking the action become known. And since we didn't take that route, we will never know what those consequences would have been. But, I would guess they would not have been good, and may have been worse then the path we took.
    Last edited by buck; 11-20-10 at 11:44 PM.

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