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Thread: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

  1. #201
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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I have supported my claim. no one outside of you disputes my claim. Even Fieth addresses the report, and aknowledges what it says. Your silliness is just that, silliness.
    The report says that the OUSD presented alternative intelligence reports that were inconsistent with the intelligence communities analysis on the iraq-AQ connection.

    Nothing about WMDs. Nothing about Bush or Chaney lying, or being behind these reports.

    How does this support your claim that Bush+Chaney knowingly lied about WMDs? At the VERY most it shows that Bush and Chaney believed the AQ-Iraq relationship. Of which they later BOTH admitted there was no relationship as they had previously believed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Mostly on your side. Remember Rumsfeld, :absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." That literally means there was no evidence.
    what does Rumsfeld have to do with your claim that Bush and Chaney lied?

    It appears you are shifting the goalposts.
    1) It was first that bush and chaney lied
    2) then it was that the bush administration lied
    3) now its changed to Gimble and Feith made faulty reports.
    4) And now its that the OUSD made faulty reports about iraq-AQ, only.

    It seems lies about WMDs have completely fallen off your radar and now its down to a contrived attempt to make some connection from OUSD to Bush+Chaney lying.


    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The claims have been supported. repeatedly.

    http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/dod/ig020907-decl.pdf

    THANK YOU FOR FINALLY POSTING YOUR SOURCE. NOW ITS VERY OBVIOUS IT DOES NOT SUPPORT THE THINGS YOU CLAIM IT DOES.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    This isn't the only thread here.
    Do you think that I believe Obama is a "muslim socialist marxist communist racist from Kenya who hates America."?

    If not why would you say it? Just ranting?
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  2. #202
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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    [QUOTE=scourge99;1059084532]
    The report says that the OUSD presented alternative intelligence reports that were inconsistent with the intelligence communities analysis on the iraq-AQ connection.

    Nothing about WMDs. Nothing about Bush or Chaney lying, or being behind these reports.

    How does this support your claim that Bush+Chaney knowingly lied about WMDs? At the VERY most it shows that Bush and Chaney believed the AQ-Iraq relationship. Of which they later BOTH admitted there was no relationship as they had previously believed.

    what does Rumsfeld have to do with your claim that Bush and Chaney lied?
    You really have troubles following something. This backs up the part about inapropriate use of intel. What you're telling me is you knwo nothing about Iraq and anything ever presented on it, a complete novice.

    It appears you are shifting the goalposts.
    1) It was first that bush and chaney lied
    2) then it was that the bush administration lied
    3) now its changed to Gimble and Feith made faulty reports.
    4) And now its that the OUSD made faulty reports about iraq-AQ, only.
    No, it's all those things and not just one of them.

    It seems lies about WMDs have completely fallen off your radar and now its down to a contrived attempt to make some connection from OUSD to Bush+Chaney lying.
    Not at all, you just seemed to have such a hard time following one single point. I haven't had a discussion with a complete novice before on these boards. Why don't you google al Libi, Chalaibi and his heors in error, and Curveball, do some homework to catch up. Yiou might also look up what we knew about alumium tubes and mobile labs before the war, as it also is contrary to what Bush told us, the people. It would take too much to link all of this for you, so I suggest you catch up before we go on.




    THANK YOU FOR FINALLY POSTING YOUR SOURCE. NOW ITS VERY OBVIOUS IT DOES NOT SUPPORT THE THINGS YOU CLAIM IT DOES.
    It does, and says exactly what the other links say. You not reading them doesn't mean this link doesn't support what was claimed. You're being disingenuous now.

    Do you think that I believe Obama is a "muslim socialist marxist communist racist from Kenya who hates America."?

    If not why would you say it? Just ranting?
    It's humor concerning all the conversations I've had here. Kind of a funny thought that came into my head while reading your silliness. I really didn't know you were so far behind the eightball, not having read anything on this subject. Either that, or you're just ebing disingenuous. There is pelnty of evidence. But it does require you think and use logic. No one's been brought up on charges and won't be, but there is plenty of evidence if you want to investigate and read, a lot.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    Nothing about WMDs. Nothing about Bush or Chaney lying, or being behind these reports.
    This is really quite simple:
    -A lie is a staement that you know to be false.
    -If you believe your statement to be true, then you cannot know the statement to be false.
    -Both Bush and Cheney believed there were WMDs in Iraq.
    Thus:
    -Bush/Cheney did not lie.

  4. #204
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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    This is really quite simple:
    -A lie is a staement that you know to be false.
    -If you believe your statement to be true, then you cannot know the statement to be false.
    -Both Bush and Cheney believed there were WMDs in Iraq.
    Thus:
    -Bush/Cheney did not lie.
    They couldn't have based on the intel they had.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    They couldn't have based on the intel they had.
    Thats your subjective, post-facto, rabidly partisan opinion.

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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Thats your subjective, post-facto, rabidly partisan opinion.
    No that's fact. The CIA has clearly stated there was no new information. We know most was destroyed before we invaded, we had information the tubes were not compatable for nuclear weapons, we had information disclaim the mobile labs, we had no information that was not doubted by the CIA concerning wmds. Bush's claim of growing and gathering was not supported by available intel.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Wikileaks leak may not have the happy ending that some folks are hoping for. If this turns out to be solid information, it will blow the lid off the anti-war movement's agenda.
    No thanks... Only fools believe those with vested interests. Those of us who want facts, not politics, believe the dozens of inspectors who found nothing after years of searching.

    ricksfolly

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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    This backs up the part about inapropriate use of intel.
    Who inappropriately used what intel? Be specific.

    The report shows that the OUSD inappropriately (not illegally) presented reports inconsistent with other intelligence agencies and provided them to "decision makers" without informing them of a difference in opinion.

    How do you tie that into your claims that:
    1)Bush+Chaney lied about WMDs, and al-queda+Iraq
    2) the bush administration lied about WMDs and al-queda+Iraq (who specifically? Is there a difference between lying, being wrong, or being misinformed?)
    3) Gimble and Feith made faulty reports.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    What you're telling me is you know nothing about Iraq and anything ever presented on it, a complete novice.
    I do NOT claim to be an expert on this subject. Do you?


    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    t appears you are shifting the goalposts.
    1) It was first that bush and chaney lied
    2) then it was that the bush administration lied
    3) now its changed to Gimble and Feith made faulty reports.
    4) And now its that the OUSD made faulty reports about iraq-AQ, only.
    it's all those things and not just one of them.
    Other than #4, how does the OUSD report substantiate those claims?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No one's been brought up on charges and won't be, but there is plenty of evidence if you want to investigate and read, a lot.
    I am requesting that evidence. It took over 5 posts for you to cough up 1 legitimate source.

    News articles, speeches, op eds, etc do NOT constitute trustworthy evidence. Does it to you?

    What other evidence do you offer to support your claims above?

    Or will you continue to masturbate about how knowledgeable and smart you are on the subject while ignoring requests to show that you are correct?
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  9. #209
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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    Who inappropriately used what intel? Be specific.

    The report shows that the OUSD inappropriately (not illegally) presented reports inconsistent with other intelligence agencies and provided them to "decision makers" without informing them of a difference in opinion.

    How do you tie that into your claims that:
    1)Bush+Chaney lied about WMDs, and al-queda+Iraq
    2) the bush administration lied about WMDs and al-queda+Iraq (who specifically? Is there a difference between lying, being wrong, or being misinformed?)
    3) Gimble and Feith made faulty reports.

    I do NOT claim to be an expert on this subject. Do you?



    Other than #4, how does the OUSD report substantiate those claims?



    I am requesting that evidence. It took over 5 posts for you to cough up 1 legitimate source.

    News articles, speeches, op eds, etc do NOT constitute trustworthy evidence. Does it to you?

    What other evidence do you offer to support your claims above?

    Or will you continue to masturbate about how knowledgeable and smart you are on the subject while ignoring requests to show that you are correct?
    Well, what about conceding that someone in the White House lied, or mislead us? Was there no involvement at all from any staf or cabinet member?

    What about Wolfowitz? You would have to say he was involved, right? No doubt about that.

    And did he make that move on his own? Without Rumsfeld?


    So then the question is did those two lie?

    There were misleading claims (lies) throughout the Alternative Intelligence documents, and even in the way they were presented - in three different versions.

    Also, this 'intelligence' was presented as intelligence when it should have been submitted only as policy.

    Part of the purpose of this work became an attempt to dispute actual intelligence by the proper IC agency. And Wolfowitz and Feith's 'intel' was wrong, of course. Its intent, in part, was to prove the CIA wrong on its claim that there was no cooperation between Iraq and al Quida. Of course, the CIA was right on that issue.

    What happened was Wolfowitz and Feith, et al, were tasked to bolster the White House's case for a war it was going to wage in Iraq.

    Is that honest?
    Last edited by tryreading; 11-06-10 at 02:11 AM.
    Do not write in this space!

  10. #210
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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading View Post
    Well, what about conceding that someone in the White House lied, or mislead us?
    I agree that Bush and Chaney said things about AlQueda and Iraq that ended up being incorrect. Whether they were, at worst, deliberately and knowingly lying, or, at best, misinformed, I do not know. Others claim that they do KNOW. I am asking how they came to that conclusion. The excuses, smoke screening, and other diversion tactics used to avoid answering this question directly is obvious.

    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading View Post
    Was there no involvement at all from any staf or cabinet member?
    Was there? You tell me? How do you KNOW?

    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading View Post
    What about Wolfowitz? You would have to say he was involved, right? No doubt about that.
    He was involved in WHAT exactly?

    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading View Post
    And did he make that move on his own? Without Rumsfeld?
    What move? Did he make any move?


    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading View Post
    So then the question is did those two lie?

    There were misleading claims (lies) throughout the Alternative Intelligence documents, and even in the way they were presented - in three different versions.
    Were they lies? The IG reports does not support that claim. They were differing opinions that were NOT supported by the CIA's intelligence analysts. In fact the IG report states specifically that the OUSD and Feith did NOT mislead congress when he sent them his reports.

    The Alternative Intel may have been wrong. It may have been made without properly consulting the CIA's analysts. But that is a far cry from concluding that it was a book of lies contrived to convince others, though that is a possibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading View Post
    Also, this 'intelligence' was presented as intelligence when it should have been submitted only as policy.
    This is correct and is consistent with the IG report

    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading View Post
    Part of the purpose of this work became an attempt to dispute actual intelligence by the proper IC agency. And Wolfowitz and Feith's 'intel' was wrong, of course. Its intent, in part, was to prove the CIA wrong on its claim that there was no cooperation between Iraq and al Quida. Of course, the CIA was right on that issue.

    What happened was Wolfowitz and Feith, et al, were tasked to bolster the White House's case for a war it was going to wage in Iraq.

    Is that honest?
    All of the above is your OPINION and SPECULATION on the motivations and thoughts of Wolfowitz and Feith.

    Is it possible that Wolfowitz and Feith made the reports (assuming they ordered and created the reports) in good faith and conscious?
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

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