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Thread: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

  1. #181
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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    what exactly is "the Iraq war Resolution" then?

    What "vote for war" do you require?
    As I said, a vote to let Bush decide. It is not a declaration of war.

    So what? Those people can choose to vote against the war and they did. They were a MINORITY.

    After the war, Bush stated that he found out that the intelligence was wrong and was just as disappointed as everybody else when wmd were not found. He nonetheless stands by his decision citing the many OTHER reasons for invasion.
    No, they voted for the resolution but explained their vote and what they wanted. Again, read Kerry for example. It was not a vote to go to war, it was a vote to allow Bush to decide.

    And if you buy that about Bush after the war, you'll buy just about anything. Again, the IG ruled the intel was used inapropriately. What was seen as reliable by the CIA was correct. Wha was doubted proved to be false. So, the intel was correct. How it was used was wrong.

    and no report, investigation, or committee has found evidence to support this. The only one's I am aware who claim this are conspiracy theorists and people with a political agenda.

    No one, or nothing of integrity. can you provide a source of integrity who supports your claim that Bush lied or deliberately misrepresented?
    Again, I point to IG report. It did report the intel was used inapropriately.

    This report documents significant instances in which the administration went beyond what the intelligence community knew--well beyond what the intelligence committee knew or believed, most notably on the false assertion that Iraq and al-Qaida had an operational relationship, a partnership, and the manipulative attempt to suggest, inaccurately, that Iraq had any complicity in the attacks of September 11--shockingly wrong statements which were made and made and made.

    Sen. Rockefeller on Prewar Iraq Intelligence

    The Pentagon's acting inspector general, Thomas Gimble, told the senate armed services committee that the office headed by Douglas Feith, formerly the number three man at the defence department, took "inappropriate" actions in pushing the al-Qaida connection not backed up by America's intelligence agencies.

    Pentagon report condemns misleading Iraq intelligence | World news | guardian.co.uk


    correction. Bush was informed by Intelligence services and made his arguments for war based on those. Those Intelligence Services were found to be in error.

    All you have demonstrated so far is speculation and conjecture. What report or investigation supports your accusations? Or is it all a "conspiracy"?
    Again false. Through Cheney's office, they went beyond the intel and used doubted intel in their arguments. Read up on Chalibi and his heors in error, curveball, and al Libi.

    I have cited the IG report. However I note you are setting up a standard that's a bit deceptive. That gives me a bit of a laugh. If you use intel that is knowingly inapporpriate, I'm sure I can only conlcude he wasn't lying.

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  2. #182
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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    As I said, a vote to let Bush decide. It is not a declaration of war.
    And how is that illegal or invalid?

    Or you just don't personally like it?



    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, they voted for the resolution but explained their vote and what they wanted. Again, read Kerry for example. It was not a vote to go to war, it was a vote to allow Bush to decide.
    so they voted to give Bush the power to go to war and he DID.

    How is that a surprising event?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Again, the IG ruled the intel was used inapropriately. What was seen as reliable by the CIA was correct. Wha was doubted proved to be false. So, the intel was correct. How it was used was wrong.



    Again, I point to IG report. It did report the intel was used inapropriately.

    This report documents significant instances in which the administration went beyond what the intelligence community knew--well beyond what the intelligence committee knew or believed, most notably on the false assertion that Iraq and al-Qaida had an operational relationship, a partnership, and the manipulative attempt to suggest, inaccurately, that Iraq had any complicity in the attacks of September 11--shockingly wrong statements which were made and made and made.

    Sen. Rockefeller on Prewar Iraq Intelligence
    this is NOT the IG report.

    This is a partisan speech by Sen Rockefeller who interprets things to his own perspective.

    Do you have the IG report? Can you CITE it to support your claims?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The Pentagon's acting inspector general, Thomas Gimble, told the senate armed services committee that the office headed by Douglas Feith, formerly the number three man at the defence department, took "inappropriate" actions in pushing the al-Qaida connection not backed up by America's intelligence agencies.

    Pentagon report condemns misleading Iraq intelligence | World news | guardian.co.uk
    Got anything about the ACTUAL report and not news articles?



    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Again false. Through Cheney's office, they went beyond the intel and used doubted intel in their arguments. Read up on Chalibi and his heors in error, curveball, and al Libi.

    I have cited the IG report. However I note you are setting up a standard that's a bit deceptive. That gives me a bit of a laugh. If you use intel that is knowingly inapporpriate, I'm sure I can only conlcude he wasn't lying.
    You have not cited anything of value...yet. Please try harder.
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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    And how is that illegal or invalid?

    Or you just don't personally like it?
    Read slow. I said it was a declaration of war, so you can't say they voted for war. Said nothing about it being illegal.


    so they voted to give Bush the power to go to war and he DID.

    How is that a surprising event?
    Surprising, no. A vote to go war, not that either. certainly cowardly. certianly passing the buck. But not a vote for war.

    this is NOT the IG report.

    This is a partisan speech by Sen Rockefeller who interprets things to his own perspective.

    Do you have the IG report? Can you CITE it to support your claims?
    One is on the second half of the senate investigation. The other is a news article on the IG report.

    Working under Douglas J. Feith, who at the time was under secretary of defense for policy, the group “developed, produced and then disseminated alternative intelligence assessments on the Iraq and Al Qaeda relationship, which included some conclusions that were inconsistent with the consensus of the Intelligence Community, to senior decision-makers,” the report concluded.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/09/wa...&adxnnl=1&oref

    Any search will bring up any number of links for this.

    Got anything about the ACTUAL report and not news articles?
    Nothing wrong with news reports. Got any reason to doubt the reports?




    You have not cited anything of value...yet. Please try harder.
    You're trying too hard not accept the truth.

    http://www.npr.org/documents/2007/fe...aq_summary.pdf

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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Read slow. I said it was a declaration of war, so you can't say they voted for war. Said nothing about it being illegal.
    Are you claiming that when members of congress voted on the resolution, they were NOT under the impression that war was imminent?

    Why exactly did they vote to give him powers? Just in case Saddam attacked?

    It would seem obvious that unless you are OK with the president going to war then you would NOT vote to give him the power. What alternative explanation do you offer?


    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Surprising, no. A vote to go war, not that either. certainly cowardly. certianly passing the buck. But not a vote for war.
    Why should anyone care about your OPINION on this matter?


    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    One is on the second half of the senate investigation. The other is a news article on the IG report.
    NONE of it is the report. Its a speech by Rockefeller giving his interpretation and spin on it.

    You appear unwilling or unable to cite the PRIMARY SOURCE to back up your claims (despite repeated requests). Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Working under Douglas J. Feith, who at the time was under secretary of defense for policy, the group “developed, produced and then disseminated alternative intelligence assessments on the Iraq and Al Qaeda relationship, which included some conclusions that were inconsistent with the consensus of the Intelligence Community, to senior decision-makers,” the report concluded.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/09/wa...&adxnnl=1&oref

    Any search will bring up any number of links for this.
    I once again note Boo's inability to present a PRIMARY source, despite requests.

    One can assume that excuses will follow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Nothing wrong with news reports. Got any reason to doubt the reports?
    YES! I have much reason to doubt news articles on controversial and political issues. Hence why I seek OFFICIAL and PRIMARY SOURCES that are readily available. The fact that you repeatedly fail to substantiate your position by citing from the PRIMARY source (despite repeated requests) indicates many things about your argument, none of which are positive.

    Are you new to debate? Do you often believe everything that the new's reports, especially on controversial issues?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You're trying too hard not accept the truth.
    Do you claim to be a mind-reader? Perhaps you should stick to debating facts rather than claiming to know others thoughts or motivations. All you have accomplished is ruining your own credibility--one of the only things of value in debate.


    Haven't read this yet. I hope its not more opinion, speculation, and interpretation such as you have presented thus far.
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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    Are you claiming that when members of congress voted on the resolution, they were NOT under the impression that war was imminent?

    Why exactly did they vote to give him powers? Just in case Saddam attacked?
    If you read there comments, it was to let Saddam know they were serious. But there is no mention of war being imminent nor is there a declaration of war.



    I once again note Boo's inability to present a PRIMARY source, despite requests.
    Might finish reading before responding.

    YES! I have much reason to doubt news articles on controversial and political issues. Hence why I seek OFFICIAL and PRIMARY SOURCES that are readily available. The fact that you repeatedly fail to substantiate your position by citing from the PRIMARY source (despite repeated requests) indicates many things about your argument, none of which are positive.
    Sources have various credibility, but the sources I use are credible, and there are multiple sources, which also indicate credibility. No one seriously doubted the sources on this.

    Are you new to debate? Do you often believe everything that the new's reports, especially on controversial issues?
    Nope. Been involved in formal debate. I would love to hold to the standard of a formal debate.

    Do you claim to be a mind-reader? Perhaps you should stick to debating facts rather than claiming to know others thoughts or motivations. All you have accomplished is ruining your own credibility--one of the only things of value in debate.
    Make such claim.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #186
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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    If you read there comments, it was to let Saddam know they were serious. But there is no mention of war being imminent nor is there a declaration of war.
    I couldn't disagree more and believe people who "buy" that excuse are gullible.

    We were building up on Iraq's border for months including bringing in heavy weapons. Everyone and their dog was aware that war was imminent., just not the "exact date or time".

    The authorization was passed in october and the war restarted in march.

    Perhaps some congressmen use the excuse that "they didn't think Bush would go to war". I believe that such people who buy that excuse are gullible unless they concede that their congressman is a moron.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Sources have various credibility, but the sources I use are credible, and there are multiple sources, which also indicate credibility.
    I'm supposed to accept your news articles because YOU think your news articles are credible?

    Once again I note the EXCUSES provided by Boo for not citing the PRIMARY source that the news articles supposedly represent.


    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Nope. Been involved in formal debate. I would love to hold to the standard of a formal debate.
    This is not a formal debate where one side is given points or deemed a winner or loser, such as in highschool debate classes or clubs.
    I've repeatedly requested that you support your claims by citing the PRIMARY source that you claimed backs your position. Instead you have offered excuses, offered news articles, and speeches rather than the source you claim supports your position.

    Such behavior is typical of those who are unwilling or unable to defend their claims, to show they speak truth rather than presenting opinion, speculation, and conjecture.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  7. #187
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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    That's what Saddam wanted. He felt that once they did that, he would be able to go back to developing and obtaining WMD. At least if the FBI agent that was in charge of questioning Saddam while he was in prison is to be believed.
    Don't give a goddam what he wanted or didn't want. Don't see how you can think that's relevant. Screw him, and do what we know was right, and invading his country again wasn't it.
    Do not write in this space!

  8. #188
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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    So despite the fact that more than half the democrats voted FOR the war and were provided such things as a National Intelligence Estimate on Iraq's WMDs, you still believe Bush magically performed voodoo and convinced a majority of congress on HIS word alone?

    The Iraq Intelligence Commission found "no evidence of political pressure to influence the Intelligence Community's pre-war assessments of Iraq's weapon systems". In fact, the Iraq Intelligence Commission placed the blame on the intelligence community, "not merely that the assessments were wrong... But that there were serious shortcomings in the way these assessments were made and communicated to policymakers."

    What reliable commission, document, or investigation has concluded or supported the idea that Bush and his administration lied?
    A real easy example, and I think Boo Radley referred to it, is something called 'Alternative Intelligence.'

    Google Wolfowitz (White House), Levin, alternative intelligence.

    This was false information contrived to promote the Iraq war.
    Do not write in this space!

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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Well, when you want something to be true, anything will do. Sadly.
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  10. #190
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    Re: Wikileaks show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq-With Surprising Results

    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading View Post
    A real easy example, and I think Boo Radley referred to it, is something called 'Alternative Intelligence.'

    Google Wolfowitz (White House), Levin, alternative intelligence.

    This was false information contrived to promote the Iraq war.
    Which report are you referring to? Can you link us to it?
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

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